A thoughtful and beautifully illustrated booklet for Detransitioners

XX and XY are DNA female and male sex. It isn't a case of going deeper. Biological sex has always and will always exist.

As I watch my DC go through puberty I cannot imagine them taking hormones to suppress themselves into a childlike state. With adults it's up to them, but children's development should not be experimented with.

Thanks for sharing this publication!

@Shizuku are you a politician? Only you have the same way of not actually answering a question that's put to you.

Transgender identity isn't your biological sex

No, it's not. I'm clearly not as clever as you.

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

They'll look closely enough to distinguish male from female, as well you bloody know . The two biological sexes, remember? Nothing else matters.

[quote FuckingFabulous]@Shizuku, if you left your DNA at a crime scene, either as the perpetrator or as the victim, would the police conclude your DNA belonged to a biological male or a biological female? [/quote]
That might depend on how closely they look at the DNA:

www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/#!/4592/presentation/578abstract

"Conclusion: We identified genetic variants in 20 genes that may play a role in transgender identity. The most promising of these include variants of genes involved in neurologic development and sex hormone pathways. We will continue to enroll transgender patients and their families. We will also perform functional analysis to assess the extent that selected variants affect their respective pathways."

@Shizuku, if you left your DNA at a crime scene, either as the perpetrator or as the victim, would the police conclude your DNA belonged to a biological male or a biological female?

Thanks purgatory. That is another good read.

Well thanks shizuku. Every time you post, it does give us a chance to bring extra support into our discussions. It really does make for a more informative thread.

Have you noticed anyone here correcting me (a woman)? Just wondering

Shizuku this assertion is completely meaningless coming from you, seeing as your definition of 'woman' is 'anyone who says they're a woman.' There's no point telling us you're a woman when the way you use the word, it could just as well mean you're male. We're none the wiser because your usage of the word has rendered it meaningless.

I think that's true Helleofabore.

This is an extract from the account of a UK desister, who desisted after 2017.

extract
When I was 15, undiagnosed autistic, and surrounded by trans culture online, it was easy to conclude that Imusthave a male brain because I had typically male patterns of thinking. I also struggled with body image issues, and I felt totally at home in the insular trans community that I had found online. Factor into that my tomboyish childhood, the fact I grew up with entirely male friend groups, and that I had been getting mistaken for a boy throughout my life (even with hair down to my hips), and I had all the evidence I needed that I was a boy in a girl’s body. I came out as trans at 16 and stayed that way until I was 21.

I didn’t medically transition, unless you count the medicine I bought online that made me grow facial hair, which I don’t as its effects were so easily reversed. My social transition consisted of me legally changing my name, changing pronouns, and trying in every way that I could to pass as a teenage boy. Because I couldn’t buy a binder, I bound my chest in extremely unsafe ways, including (to my current self’s horror) with duct tape and gaffer tape.

"My ASD diagnosis explained the non-normative behaviors I had been showing my whole life in a way that the Gender Dysphoria diagnosis never quite could."

It was my ASD diagnosis in 2017 that made me begin to put all the parts together and realize I had made the wrong decision about transitioning. My ASD diagnosis explained the non-normative behaviors I had been showing my whole life in a way that the Gender Dysphoria diagnosis never quite could. It truly changed my life and saved me from doing something I would certainly have regretted. After I got diagnosed I began researching autism in females, which was what opened a whole Pandora’s box of doubts and second thoughts about transitioning, which eventually led to me desisting.

I began, for the first time, to question the entire philosophical basis of gender ideology, and to critically examine the transgender community. Before then I had never truly questioned any of the things I was reading about gender online, probably because I was so consumed by it. Once I stepped outside of that bubble, I began to realise that I had been sold a false step-by-step guide to self-actualization, and I think that’s what was so intoxicating to me about transition. It presented an opportunity to turn myself from this awkward, self-loathing autistic girl into a cool and confident man, and I couldn’t resist it. It’s not that I was being pressured into altering my body exactly, but I was always itching to take the “next step” up the ladder to eventually become that cool confident man I wanted to be.

Continues here:
4w.pub/autism-puberty-gender-dysphoria-view-from-an-autistic-desisted-woman/?fbclid=IwAR2nHMkwhopvZpNcHslcZgo5I6VSOiyYSMOeBHkNxa_QVqq39fK5XWFbdlY

People will accuse you of pedalling a particular agenda rather than trying to help confused young people avoid unnecessary hormones and surgery.

And there's no detransitioner there talking about transphobia being the reason why. I've also not seen it mentioned on any detrans videos or on twitter.

I suspect that the fact that this is about European detransitioners is wholly relevant compared to a USA study. Entirely different approaches to transition and over all health care must account for a great deal.

Wandawomble

thanks Wanda for posting this. I remember when Nelle and Ellie (might have their names mixed up) starting reaching out to other detransitioners. They seem very brave and open and honest. I am so glad that they are building a community for support.

And this book is beautifully illustrated too. It is well worth a read whatever your point of view.

You really don't get it do you Shiz?

They don't need more cognitive dissonance.

And there's no detransitioner there talking about transphobia being the reason why. I've also not seen it mentioned on any detrans videos or on twitter.

I really hope MN stays a safe space where detransitioning can be openly discussed without fear of a minority closing it down because it doesn't fit their narrative.

I didn't realise you were a woman, Shizuku. Have you transitioned? That's a personal question, so feel free to ignore.

The book states:

People only detransition because of discrimination

^‘Detransitioning is not a result of societal pressure,
it’s a personal decision that we make because we were looking for a solution where we wouldn’t find one and that’s okay. People change and grow every day and detransitioning doesn’t make us transphobic or “converted” or whatever, we’re just learning and growing.’ Female desister, 19^

‘People may detransition because transition didn’t work well enough, it caused health issues, it wasn’t satisfying, their dysphoria desisted, etc. Those are infinitely more common reasons than the supposed “lack of support, societal transphobia, misdiagnosis” explanation that people like to use to delegitimise us and our concerns for dysphoric people.’ Female detransitioner, 19

While I am sure that your study was relevant to the USA and in the lead up to 2015, may I suggest that you take into consideration that this book is published by European transitioners and many of them are recent detransitioners from a cohort that I would expect to be a little different to the USA cohort included in that study.

We have discussed the major differences in the demographics of transitioners now to previous cohorts before on different threads. What is hugely important, is to make sure that these detransitioner's voices are never minimised as they are more representative of that current cohort.

All detransitioner stories are important. Every single one.

The quotes here in this book are certainly from young teens who have a different experience to that which you are stating.

The fact also that they are also female detransitioners that are representative of the majority of young transitioners in the UK means that their voice should not be minimised or handwaved as 'not relevant to this USA study from 2015'.

Mind you, that 8+% figure does fit with that European long term study you posted a few times that showed male and female detransition. Maybe we should correlate any information about those detransitioners into this thread as well. That study certainly did not make a point it talking about retransition either, so maybe retransition is something that is more prevalent in the USA than elsewhere.

Just bumping this again

62% of detransitioners in the sruvery of 28,000 trans people retransitioned. That is a "majority".

None of the claims in the booklet are referenced with science. See booklet for confirmation.