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Original poster

Pronouns and sexual orientation

41 replies

InsideNumberNine · 22/04/2021 15:09

I know there is a lot of discussion at the moment regards pronouns and it got me thinking.

If the purpose of declaring pronouns is to show solidarity to people who may be struggling with their gender identity and therefore, declaring yours helps them to feel accepted before they publicly share theirs, should we be doing this for our sexual orientations too? Should people who are openly gay or lesbian be declaring that in their email signatures to show solidarity to colleagues who are afraid to make their sexual orientation public?

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VaginalAcoustic1212 · 24/04/2021 18:15

Gosh, yes, can't foresee any issues at all in creating culture where we put our sexual orientation on everyday documents. Perhaps it would be fun for us to wear little pink triangles too. You know, just to mark us out.

CatherinaJTV · 24/04/2021 18:13

@titchy

Googling to find a photo is probably the worse thing you can do if you want to verify someone's pronouns tbh.
what else do you do? I was left in the dark about "Sam" for years until we were in a meeting together. Pronouns or "Mr/Mrs" makes things so much easier...
titchy · 24/04/2021 17:41

Googling to find a photo is probably the worse thing you can do if you want to verify someone's pronouns tbh.

titchy · 24/04/2021 17:40

If Kim or Sam or Jo or Chris want to add their pronouns because they have a unisex name that's understandable (though if they're female they'd be daft to do so...) but for Jane and John and the majority of other people with single-sex names, to add their pronoun is entirely unnecessary and screams 'look at me I'm so woke'

CatherinaJTV · 24/04/2021 17:01

@titchy

The whole pronoun in a signature is irrelevant anyway. If you sign off your name as Jane Smith, everyone will refer to you as she/her. John Smith will always be he/him. Even if Jane used to be John, a female name is enough to indicate which pronoun to use.
I see your Jane and John and raise you Kim and Sam (or a foreign/rare/unusual name). I have googled folk to find either them, or at least pictures of people with the same first name to get a feeling whether they are f or m. Pronouns make things easier and if someone says their pronouns are "their/them", I will use those, too, just like I will use the name someone introduces themself with, because not to do so would be rude.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/04/2021 16:30

It's a different thing entirely - it's for visually impaired people who may be attending the meeting, and it's helpful for them.

I don't think it's fair or appropriate to put people on the spot like this. What about people with anxiety?

MrsSteveMcDonald · 24/04/2021 16:10

Yes, let's put marmite in signatures as I don't think I want to work with people that don't like marmite.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 24/04/2021 14:53

Perhaps everyone should also declare their race, age and religion?

And whether or not they like Marmite.

JellySlice · 24/04/2021 13:10

Only if you're an ordinary person.

If you're Jane-with-penis, you need to tell people how to think and speak once they see or hear you. If you're Jane-who-would-once-have-been-Goth, you need to tell people how to think and speak so that they reinforce how special you are.

titchy · 24/04/2021 13:00

The whole pronoun in a signature is irrelevant anyway. If you sign off your name as Jane Smith, everyone will refer to you as she/her. John Smith will always be he/him. Even if Jane used to be John, a female name is enough to indicate which pronoun to use.

TeaAndStrumpets · 24/04/2021 12:55

jellyslice indeed!

JellySlice · 24/04/2021 11:35

@TeaAndStrumpets

"Respecting declared pronouns" is like crossing yourself and genuflecting when you enter a church.
AFAIK Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, agnostics and atheists are not expected to cross themselves or genuflect when entering a Catholic Church. How interesting that affirmation of a Faith they don't hold is not imposed upon them - and that the era when such affirmation was imposed upon non-Catholics is not considered an era e we want to repeat.
TeaAndStrumpets · 24/04/2021 10:02

"Respecting declared pronouns" is like crossing yourself and genuflecting when you enter a church.

Soontobe60 · 24/04/2021 09:38

@newnortherner111

People who are struggling with their gender identity should be respected if they do not want their work colleagues to know. Hence why declaring pronouns should be optional, and respected if declared.
What does ‘respecting declared pronouns’ even mean?
TeamCuthbert · 24/04/2021 09:36

@DoorhandlesUnited

Including your Myer Biggs personality type would possibly be more useful and more interesting.
Yes, this!
ValancyRedfern · 24/04/2021 09:32

I completely get the need for audio description in the theatre and TV etc. But in meetings? Why do we need to know what the other people look like? It is performative inclusion which helps no-one. And for those who are unhappy or embarrassed about their appearance, how awful to have to describe themselves at the start of every meeting.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/04/2021 09:13

[quote parietal]@BlackWaveComing - I guessed it might be for visually impaired people, but in the context of this meeting, there wasn't any particular need to know what anyone looked like. and it was very embarrassing for everyone.[/quote]
I can't imagine why anyone at a 'serious meeting' would have any need to know what anyone else looked like, any more than they'd need to know their sexuality, 'gender' or religion. ConfusedFocus on looks is all too likely to be liable to end up being detrimental to women.
We only ever do audio only. Screens are needed for important info.

mollythemeerkat · 24/04/2021 09:12

@oldwomanwhoruns

It's a brilliant idea, OP. There are other really really important things we should be sharing in our bio too, aren't there?

Cat or Dog preference would be really useful.
Also perhaps if one is a Morning person, or an Evening sort of person? So that they know when it's best to phone?

Food preferences maybe: "I`m an intermittent vegan and sometimes vegetarian but I like eating a bit of fish now and then". Starting meetings at work could take forever with this stuff.
IvyTwines2 · 24/04/2021 09:07

@parietal

I sat through a serious meeting a few weeks ago where every speaker was asked to give a 'visual description' of themselves as part of their into. It was horrendously awkward to sit through ten versions of "I'm John bloggs and I'm a middle aged white man who is a bit bald sitting in front of a bookcase"

But that is the logical next step

It's a different thing entirely - it's for visually impaired people who may be attending the meeting, and it's helpful for them. And you can't just look around a room or look around a Zoom and say, oh, it doesn't look like there's anyone visually impaired here, let's just skip this bit - unless you know for sure everyone present has 20/20 vision, then it's helpful to include it. Some theatres now do something similar with a 'touch tour' of the set before the show. It's not in the same category as a compulsory pronoun declaration.
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 24/04/2021 08:51

Pronouns are too try hard. I would prefer to use my star sign, which helpfully is gender neutral.

I’ve thought of using my star sign when asked for my ‘gender’ (when they mean sex), TeaAndStrumpets. Or my favourite colour/ song/ holiday destination. All equally relevant/irrelevant and more interesting than ‘gender identity’!

parietal · 23/04/2021 09:39

@BlackWaveComing - I guessed it might be for visually impaired people, but in the context of this meeting, there wasn't any particular need to know what anyone looked like. and it was very embarrassing for everyone.

TeaAndStrumpets · 23/04/2021 09:27

Inside leg measurement would support everybody.

DoorhandlesUnited · 23/04/2021 09:22

Including your Myer Biggs personality type would possibly be more useful and more interesting.

Congressdingo · 23/04/2021 09:19

@oldwomanwhoruns

It's a brilliant idea, OP. There are other really really important things we should be sharing in our bio too, aren't there?

Cat or Dog preference would be really useful.
Also perhaps if one is a Morning person, or an Evening sort of person? So that they know when it's best to phone?

I'm a later on but not too late, cat/dog/horse coffee drinking bitch.

Is that what you envisioned?
Looks better than
Pronouns majesty/regent. ace bi
(Or is it bi ace? )

HermitsLife · 23/04/2021 09:12

I suppose it depends what sector you're working in doesn't it? I work in B2B distribution, I care more about the person on the other end actually responding to my email than I do about their sex or identity.

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