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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

National Youth/Children's Brass Band (yes, I am in the right section)

59 replies

GCSciFiFan · 20/04/2021 19:09

OMG The crazy gets everywhere!!

Just completed DD's registration for NCBB - they didn't even ask for sex just gender identity with answers:

woman (including transwoman)
man (including transman)
non binary.

Aaargghhh! Have sent the following in reply - wish me luck!

-------
Dear XXXX

Registration completed – thank you.

However I do have to raise my extreme concern at one of the questions on the registration form. The question asks for Gender Identity , with answers of woman (including transwoman), man (including transman) and non binary.

  1. Gender Identity is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010. The protected characteristics are sex, and gender reassignment. The Equality Act places obligations on organisations in terms of not discriminating. If the information collected is wrong, misleading or refers to characteristics that are not on the list of protected characteristics then the organisation risks being found in breach of the act.
  2. Following on from this, under GDPR organisations are only allowed to collect necessary information – which would be at most those covered by protected characteristics. There is no lawful reason to collect information about other characteristics including “gender identity”. Thus you should only be collecting Sex (male/female).
  3. It is not possible for a legally defined transwoman or transman (with a Gender Recognition Certificate) to be a member of the NCBB, as GRCs are not available to under-18s. I would suspect it is almost impossible for NYBB due to the time needed post-18 to gain a GRC. We do not have Self-ID (where everyone is whatever gender they claim to be) in the UK, thus the only relevant characteristic is that of sex. As your organisation seems to believe that women and trans-women belong in the same category, please can you confirm that there will be adequate provision of single-sex only toilet and bathroom facilities for the course? Can you confirm that changing and shower facilities, and sleeping accommodation will be single sex? The Equality Act 2010 specifically says that single-sex exemptions can be used to designate spaces which are only for one sex, and apply to scenarios such as changing rooms (Schedule 3 part 7 sections 26-27) and sleeping arrangements (Schedule 23 part 3). The Act makes it clear that the above exemptions apply even with regard to people undergoing gender reassignment, as long as the exemptions are ‘a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim’ (Schedule 3 part 7 section 28). The legitimate aim in this case is the safeguarding of children: You may be aware of the recent articles in the national press on the increase in child on child sexual abuse and the alarming extent of the sexual harassment of girls in school. All children must feel safe in an educational environment, and in this context it is particularly important that girls are able to change and sleep in a single sex space.

For more information this issue, including how to create safe environments for all children I recommend the following websites:

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/who-we-are/
www.sexnotgender.info/
www.transgendertrend.com/product/equality-law-and-statutory-schools-guidance/

I look forward to your response.
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OP posts:
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BrizzleGirl · 21/04/2021 00:23

Well done OP what a great and quick result!

FlibbertyGiblets · 21/04/2021 00:02

Well done OP.

FannyCann · 20/04/2021 22:32

OMG. That is the best email ever OP.
Guaranteed to get the "Oh Nooo, we've messed with the wrong woman (assuming gender) here" response. As shown by the speed of their correction.

Massive respect to you OP. StarStarStar

ArabellaScott · 20/04/2021 22:19

Fantastic letter, OP, really impressed. I've copied and pasted, hope you don't mind!

Regards EHRC, I saw something interesting on them today ...

www.sexnotgender.info/gender-is-not-a-protected-characteristic-admits-ehrc/

Honeywort · 20/04/2021 22:15

Well done Op - great email and great result

PineappleCakes · 20/04/2021 22:06

Brilliant job @GCSciFiFan 👏👏 Thank you.

EyesOpening · 20/04/2021 22:00

OP I think you come across as someone very professional and concerned with child safeguarding.
Anyone not concerned with child safeguarding comes across as highly suspect.

ChewtonRoad · 20/04/2021 21:45

Brilliant response to the original nonsense, GCSciFi, very well done.

I think to most people you will come across as a bigoted psycho a thoughtful woman who understands reality and has the best interests of your daughter and other children in mind.

ClarrieGrundy · 20/04/2021 21:39

Great result.

There's enough sexual tension in youth music courses to power the National Grid. Adding 'chose your own dorm" into the mix would be catastrophic.

notnowdennis · 20/04/2021 21:35

That isn’t the Arts Council phrasing for an Annual Return for participants/audiences. It is voluntary equalities data they request of Staff, volunteers and trustees for Equal Ops forms/info gathering for adults.

Glad they have admitted error. Might be useful for ACE to put out a clarification...

BlackeyedSusan · 20/04/2021 21:35

ooh, is child safeguarding being called "bigotted psychoing" now?

It is important for all children, including trans children, to be kept safe from harm. There is so much that could go wrong for children and young people if they are sleeping in the same room as opposite sex children, especially the child that is the opposite sex to everyone else.

fruitbrewhaha · 20/04/2021 21:33

I think to most people you will come across as a bigoted psycho.

Nope, not all, and clearly not the youth orchestra or the arts council.

Well done OP. I'm pleased you raised this with them. It's amazing that no one in the admin dept read through this and thought, hang on a minute, how can we know the numbers to allocate sleeping if we have asked this question.

GCSciFiFan · 20/04/2021 21:33

If being a bigoted psycho means that dd doesn’t have to get naked or sleep sharing with someone with a penis then I’m good with that!

There are exemptions in the equality act specifically to protect women’s single sex (penis free) spaces and standing up for our (and our daughters) rights to these is not bigoted at all!

OP posts:
WarOnWomen · 20/04/2021 21:32

@pheebumbalatti

I think to most people you will come across as a bigoted psycho.
Obviously, NCBB don't think so and that is what matters.
WarOnWomen · 20/04/2021 21:31

Excellent email, OP and a positive result. It's good to see an organisation say "yep, our mistake" and change their info straight away as opposed to doubling down. Good for you NCBB for sorting it so quickly.

BlackeyedSusan · 20/04/2021 21:30

I have copied and pasted and sent myself an email, just in case the thread disappears. Thanks.

SittingAround1 · 20/04/2021 21:30

I think to most people you will come across as a bigoted psycho

she really won"t

EyesOpening · 20/04/2021 21:27

What a brilliant email you sent! Great result too1

pheebumbalatti · 20/04/2021 21:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SittingAround1 · 20/04/2021 21:24

But, if the question was for the adults, then are the adults who will be supervising the kids sleeping etc be divided by sex too?

This was my thought too, as the reply said it was for staff, would this include staff accompanying the children on residential trips ?

Clymene · 20/04/2021 21:21

The fucking Arts Council is entirely captured and makes all the organisations they give grants to jump through ludicrous hoops.

Great letter OP

Akela64 · 20/04/2021 21:20

Well done. I'm sure they all have their thinking caps on now.

aweegc · 20/04/2021 21:18

Your email was brilliant and the outcome great.

But, if the question was for the adults, then are the adults who will be supervising the kids sleeping etc be divided by sex too? How are they defining an adult woman?

Or maybe it was only Arts Council related?

ChakaDakotaRegina · 20/04/2021 21:17

Well done!

StillWeRise · 20/04/2021 21:17

brilliant, this just shows it IS worth complaining, not only have they changed what their form but several people will have been educated in the process

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