This actually made me laugh out loud, but ironically

It is hard to find reported examples of transgender people attacking or harassing cisgender women in public bathrooms; however, a 2016 study found that12% of transgender people had been harassed in a public bathroom within the previous year.

But is that their own account of being harassed, and could that include being innocently addressed as their birth sex or maybe looked at awkwardly etc? Because many trans activists clearly consider anything other than total acceptance and affirmation to be an attack.

Even given that, 12% is not very high considering the "most oppressed" claims. I bet a bigger percentage of women, ethnic minorities, disabled people etc would report harassment in a typical year of everyday life.

Yes Eresh

You can ask MNHQ to change the title for you by reporting your original post.

Arguably the presence of males in a female space is harassment in and of itself.

It is hard to find reported examples of transgender people attacking or harassing cisgender women in public bathrooms; however, a 2016 study found that12% of transgender people had been harassed in a public bathroom within the previous year.

Thinking out loud here, but that's probably because of the odd search terms, especially if Felix has his web-search settings to give UK results first, as many of us do.

What is a "public bathroom"? Isn't this term an American custom to avoid saying "toilet" in a mixed group of people?

I have just performed two web searches for myself, using the authors' sentence as a model, one with "public bathroom" and one with "public toilet".

The first gave me results about bathroom fittings, and articles about trans people's fears in "public bathrooms".

The second gave me this on my first page of results, right up at the top.

metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

Pity the author of the article didnt think to ask some of your very pertinent questions @Biscuitsanddoombar, but maybe they werent interested in the answers.

Try waiting for breast reduction surgery on the NHS as a bog-standard woman

Bad editing above. Apologies!

But the basis of the tribunal’s ruling was that Forstater aggressively denied the identities of people with whom she might have to work, more than that she said that “sex is real”.

In context, this sentence does not deny that sex is real. From my reading of the judge's decision in the Forstater case, I think the article misrepresents his reasons, but in context, this sentence does not deny that sex is real. Is this an example of motte and bailey?

I am not a journalist. But there are so many flaws and lies in that article it wouldn’t take me long to point them out. Most annoying of all they have repeated the trope about detransitioning from the Dutch study. The 0.6% figure is the number of people who regretted having gonadectomy only. It does not indicate regret from any other treatments like puberty blockers or testosterone. It cannot be applied to the current cohort of teenage girls in the same way the authors have advised their protocol can not necessarily be applied to the current cohort of teenage girls.

Do they think there aren’t people who have read this stuff and understand it?

Oh, and Eva Wiseman signed the letter condemning Suzanne Moore, for the record.

Thanks for the link to Maya's blog. These contentious opinion type pieces filled with dubious opinion passing for unchecked fact ("scrubbed clean" my arse) are becoming more noticeable among previously intelligent mainstream media. It's lazy and divisive. While I wish Felix well and stories like his are valuable in many ways, the automatic assumption he has to be right and go unchallenged because of his lived experiences - and we're all to defer to it - is the problem here.

Off to dig for Maya now.

It's good that there's a polyphony of voices with different experience.

Sadly, as we know from past experience of committees, it's dangerous when committee members are so swayed by emotion that they forget to consult an appropriate range of voice nor give appropriate scrutiny to claims/assertions and their evidence base.

Wiseman also seems to have fallen foul of blurring the lines between an Op-Ed piece and something that needs to be factual. It's poor enough for somebody with a senior post in a news organisation - it's wretched to endorse similar when testifying to a committee.

As @RoyalCorgi has pointed out on the other thread - I was incorrect re complaints:

unfortunately the Guardian and Observer have chosen not to be regulated by IPSO. People need to complain to the readers' editor. Email is [email protected]

oh eve wiseman is full on twaw beeeeeee kiiiind, always has been.

What is she wittering on about? The Guardian is ridiculous.

This person is a journalist, apparently...

Just resharing the link to Maya F's blog in which she picks apart the inaccuracies in the article (for those not on Twitter):

mforstater.medium.com/journalistic-standards-are-not-something-you-put-on-and-take-off-e14f78b487d

And here's the link to complain:

www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

Exactly. 18 weeks? Who actually gets anything within 18 weeks when most people face waits for 2 or 3 weeks just to see a bog standard gp. How many people wait months or closer to years for access to diagnosis? I've been told that the waiting list for autism diagnosis for children in my area is close to 2 years.

My middle child needs a tooth pulling under Ga but will need to wait for minimum of 6 months. Before covid I was waiting for my wisdom teeth to be removed, daily pain and frequent infections but the waiting list is just over a year. Every one is having to wait for everything.

What makes them so special? Either wait or save up/get a loan to go private. They are your options.

“A 2018 study found that autistic resistance to social conditioning may play an important role in incidence of trans identity. One possibility, therefore, is that rates of trans incidence in autistic people may be closer to the true rates in the human population. Non-autistic people are more susceptible to social pressure to conform, so they may be more likely to suppress a potential trans identity.”

I found that an interesting paragraph. It seems to be saying that autistic people don’t ‘perform femininity/masculinity’ as well as NT people and so are more likely to identify as trans. I think that’s possibly true, but not in the way it’s being claimed.

It’s also yet another statement that’s obsessed with stereotypes: ‘don’t follow the stereotypes associated with men? You must be a woman’ and vice versa. The fact most NT people aren’t trans isn’t because only autistic people can ‘recognise their true selves’, it’s because NT people don’t see things as so black and white. They feel that not fulfilling the stereotypes associated with one’s sex doesn’t mean you’re trans because the stereotypes are just that - stereotypes.

I was also interested in the comments about how welcoming the trans community was. I think that’s true. The LGBT community is welcoming, and for those who feel they don’t fit in in some way, then having such a community can be nice. I also feel that the ‘queer community’ (sorry - I hate that word) provides even more scope for being in a special club as anyone can claim to be ‘queer’.

Always a focus on public toilets, never prisons. Lots of space to make obscure attacks on JKR, no space to actually discuss the concerns she laid out in her essay.

I thought it was less "as the fancy" took you, and more based on economics. Boy mode satisfies the bank account, and pays for girl mode, which satisfies the ego.

‘Being trans is not something you put on and take off’...

I thought that you could switch from girl to boy mode as the fancy takes you?

It's time the Guardian/Observer did an opinion piece this long written by an actual detransitioner.
It's simply too convenient to continually give trans activists the platform to talk over and marginalise detrans voices.

This (complete with failure to link citation) is incredibly patronising and generalising. How dare they speak on behalf of the detrans community. The numerous detrans people who finally gain the courage to talk about what they gone through are just constantly belittled by these people.

According to a 2015 study, 8% of transgender people have detransitioned at some point, but 62% of those who detransition later transition again. The majority of people who detransition cite external pressure, usually from family and friends, as their reason for doing so. They don’t detransition because they weren’t really trans, but because they are pushed back into the closet.