Nordic model demand in Daily Mail

I can't recall seeing reports of these almost mythical 2 prostitutes working together being prosecuted.

No me neither, and I'm sure it would be all over the Guardian, Independent etc.

When owning/running a brothel is illegal (for example in the UK) you do realise the ones who end up being fined/arrested/charged over this law are the prostitutes themselves? If 2 or more prostitutes work together at the same place (even if it isn't at the same time) they are breaking this law

I can't recall seeing reports of these almost mythical 2 prostitutes working together being prosecuted. There certainly have been prosecutions of pimps, traffickers and brothel keepers.

Few things disappoint me more than the stance that human rights organisation has decided to take on an industry which perpetuates the oppression of women. An industry based on selling women as products and a money pit for people traffickers. Their stance, which is based on the myth of the happy sex worker, makes no sense for women living in poverty in the countries where they claim to be focused on improving human rights.

Thanks for this. I have written to my MP (Tory). I fear though that Tories will oppose it out of principle as its a Labour MP that is behind it and many Labour will oppose due to Momentum's opposition.
I'm glad I cancelled my DD to Amnesty a while ago, they have lost the plot (again).

www.independent.co.uk/voices/prostitution-decriminalisation-new-zealand-holland-abuse-harm-commercialisation-a7878586.html

The headline is "This is what really happens when prostitution is decriminalised" but the article begins with a picture of Amsterdam's RLD which isn't decriminalisation at all?

"I heard a legal pimp in Nevada refer to his “business” as similar to that of McDonalds. Except in the case of prostitution, human beings, not dead flesh, are the product for sale."

Sex workers sell a service, not their "bodies".

When owning/running a brothel is illegal (for example in the UK) you do realise the ones who end up being fined/arrested/charged over this law are the prostitutes themselves? If 2 or more prostitutes work together at the same place (even if it isn't at the same time) they are breaking this law.

Often here in Britain and over in the US the police and media will say they are doing "anti-trafficking" raids on brothels and say they have made arrests. What they keep quiet is the fact the ones arrested are almost always the prostitutes themselves for the brothel-keeping law, and not actual traffickers.

In Sweden when they introduced the Nordic model, part of this law made it illegal to rent property to a sex worker. This resulted in prostitutes being evicted as soon as the landlord found out and some ended up homeless, it also gives them another reason to keep what they do a secret and not ask for help if they feel they need it.

"Pimping", despite what many think, is actually a very broad term which means providing any service at all for a sex worker in return for payment. This includes things like make a website for a sex worker, provide transport eg driver her to/from a client, provide security eg wait in the car the entire time a sex worker is with her client etc.

Reasons like these are generally why sex workers and many others advocate decriminalisation.

I am really disappointed with my MP, Tulip Siddiq (Camden). I emailed her in 2019 about this and she was in favour of a sex buyer law. But when I contacted her in January this year she seemed to be backtracking - "sensitive area..... issue is complex.....will give the bill close attention" blah blah blah. Grrrrr

Ah New Zealand! The holy grail...

"New Zealand is regularly held up as the gold standard model of how to eradicate problems inherent to prostitution. In 2003 its government voted (by a majority of one) to decriminalise pimping, brothel owning and sex buying. The argument, led by the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective (NZPC), was as persuasive as it was misleading: removing all criminal laws from all aspects of the trade would lead to “worker’s rights” and safety for the women. Handily for sex trade entrepreneurs, this resulted in pimps and brothel owners being rebranded as “businessmen”. I heard a legal pimp in Nevada refer to his “business” as similar to that of McDonalds. Except in the case of prostitution, human beings, not dead flesh, are the product for sale.
Alongside other countries and states that have removed criminal penalties against sex trade exploiters, such as Holland, Germany, Nevada (US), and some states in Australia, New Zealand helped to make selling sex as respectable and devoid of red tape as selling cars. The application form for opening a brothel in New Zealand is just two pages long: three pages shorter than the form needed to adopt a dog or cat from Battersea Dogs & Cats Home.

One of the many survivors of the sex trade I met during my research is Sabrinna Valisce, who volunteered with the NZPC over a 25-year period. Valisce campaigned alongside her colleagues for blanket decriminalisation, but now regrets doing so. “I thought it would give more power and rights to the women,” she told me, “but I soon realised the opposite was true.”"

www.independent.co.uk/voices/prostitution-decriminalisation-new-zealand-holland-abuse-harm-commercialisation-a7878586.html

"And a subsequent massive unacknowledged problem with child sexual exploitation as decriminalisation allows the sex industry to manage itself."

Source?

Bizarre these supposed left-wing organisations being so pro-decrim aka the bosses monitoring their own industry. In what other industry would this be seen as desirable?

"It astonishes me how anyone can watch what has unfolded in Germany and still defend decriminalisation."

Just saw this. btw Germany has legalisation, not decriminalisation.

New Zealand for example has decriminalisation.

Huge trust in the academy here Pie. HUGE. I mean how many of them sighed that letter about Professor Kathleen Stock that they had to retract?

"the rape of vulnerable young women"

Rape is already illegal, noone is advocating for that to change.

Personally I think I'd trust all the leading Human Rights, Health, anti-trafficking, anti-STI etc orgs over the Daily Mail tabloid.

The Daily Mail is now deemed so uncredible Microsoft's newest browser now gives a popup warning to users visiting it that it can't be trusted!

www.theguardian.com/media/2019/jan/23/dont-trust-daily-mail-website-microsoft-browser-warns-users

An NGO DecrimNow have written an open letter to parliament in favour of decrim instead. At the bottom of the letter you can see the long (and growing) list of orgs and individuals who have signed it. This also includes the University and College Union which has 120,000+ academic members.

decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/

"But not so the 150 prominent organisations, academics and activists, including Stonewall and Amnesty International, which have signed an open letter opposing the Sexual Exploitation Bill."

Why on earth are Stonewall involved with this? What the fuck has a Sexual Exploitation Bill - and the rape of vulnerable young women - got to do with them?! They should fuck right off.

Thought of this thread when reading this tonight:

Manhattan is moving to decriminalise sex work, sort of... (brought to you by the pro sex work dude bros at Vice)

www.vice.com/en/article/akgz9e/manhattan-is-moving-to-decriminalize-sex-work-kind-of

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]Prostitution in Germany - be warned, it's stomach-turning and enraging.

fightthenewdrug.org/germanys-legalized-prostitution-industry-looks-like-a-real-life-horror-movie/[/quote]
Thank you for sharing. That was horrific, a tough read which demonstrates how women have become just another product for sale to be used in many awful ways at the whim of men. It undermines many of the arguments made by the pro-decriminalisation lobby.

"when the Prostitution Act came into effect in 2002, it made it possible for prostituted people to become regular employees, subject to taxation and access to social benefits. Yet only 44 out of an estimated 400,000-1,000,000 prostituted people have chosen to register as prostitutes in order to access said benefits."

"Organized crime groups like the Hells Angels, Mongols, Bandidos, United Tribuns, etc. control prostitution and red light districts in various German cities. Hamburg and Frankfurt, for example, are in the hands of the Hells Angels, whereas the United Tribuns control prostitution in Stuttgart and Villingen-Schwenningen. Despite that reality, popular discourse around legalization tends to focus on women’s “free choice” instead of the heavy involvement of organized crime in the industry."

“Flat-rate brothels” offer all-inclusive deals similar to all-you-can-eat buffets.” In some cases, snacks and drinks are included in the deal. A flat-rate brothel chain made headlines when, on its opening day in 2009, 1,700 men lined up to get in. The long lineups outside women’s rooms lasted until closing time when many of the women collapsed from exhaustion, pain, injuries, and infections. It was shut down a year later for human trafficking."

"Flat-rate brothels are very common in Germany, as well as “tabuslos,” meaning “no taboos.” In practice, this translates to “everything without any protection.” As a result, STDs are on the rise in Germany (HIV rates have gone up after several years of stagnation), and it’s common for married men to infect their wives."

"They can now even order women the way one would order a pizza thanks to a mobile app produced last year."

"In 2010, this channel aired a program about a brothel which caters to pedophile sexual fantasies. Women that look and dress like minors are available in rooms called “The Princess Room” or “The Classroom.” A video on YouTube shows the fifth anniversary of this brothel, attended by many German celebrities."

There's so much in there that is shocking it's hard to know what to pick and choose, but women's injuries being used in promotional material to demonstrate what a
great time was had by punters is one of the stand out details. Utterly depressing that organisations like Amnesty backs decriminalisation- it seems human rights don't extend to women.

What a great article, big fan of Mary Harrington.
Is there a list anywhere of all the organisations that have opposed this bill? I'd like to make sure I never give them a cent.

Good on the DM for publishing this. Like others, every young woman I've worked with who got caught up in prostitution was vulnerable, poor, from an abusive background and involved with drugs.
The denial of this is shameful.

That link Embarrassing - horror movie is right. **

I have never viewed women who enter prostitution as having had a totally free choice, other than a minuscule percentage. If it is not trafficking then it is economic coercion of sorts, given the poverty and low pay that exists in this country.

I've said this before and I will say it again, I'm sure. If you removed from prostitution any woman who was addicted, poor, sexually abused as a child, trafficked, pimped or started under 18, there would be next to no women in prostitution. Leaving the tiny remainder to charge a thousand pounds for a blow job and refuse any job they didn't want.

The business relies on addicted, sex crime survivors and trafficked women. That is its core. I'm sure they can dreg up a woman who isn't in this position to speak about choice. But I can find 20 in 10 minutes who are coerced.

Excellent article & delighted it’s somewhere with such a large readership

“Sisters Uncut – are sticking up for the punters who pay to rape trafficked women.” My surprised face was not utilised

Thanks @altforvarmt - isn't there a district in a northern English town, maybe Leeds, where it's been "decriminalised" with shocking results? Where is that do you know?

Do you mean Holbeck in Leeds? This is discussed at length in the article.

It's an excellent article.

Prostitution in Germany - be warned, it's stomach-turning and enraging.

fightthenewdrug.org/germanys-legalized-prostitution-industry-looks-like-a-real-life-horror-movie/