Help explain non binary

@Shizuku do you have any idea how offensive what you are saying is?

Your assertion that being a woman is all about how one 'identifies'? That the only way someone would say 'I am a woman' is if they have a female gender identity.

It's so insulting to all of the women throughout history and across the world for whom biological sex is absolutely fuck all to do with their identity.

Malala Yousafzai, victims of FGM, girls in period huts, women who can't access an abortion - they all know they are women. How do they know that? Clue, it has absolutely nothing to do with how they identify. They could never identify out of their experiences that happened to them because of their female bodies.

Please stop it.

It's your innate knowledge of your own sex. Your mistake is thinking that it is purely derived from observing what reproductive organs you have, when actually it's something you are born with, hard-wired into the brain.

How do people know they have this disordered perception?

Shizuku the idea of female brain went out of fashion a long, long time ago.

Brains are not sexed, apart from the obvious XX and XY which no one ever seems to want to discuss when they mention "brain sex".

Or are you saying that I could have an eye-colour identity of brown-eyed, despite my eyes being unequivocally blue? Presumably, whether I choose to wear brown contacts or not (my eye colour expression), I could have a deeply felt inner conviction that despite my eyes being blue on the outside, I feel like a brown-eyed person and should be treated as one. But what does being a brown-eyed person feel like, if there are no stereotypes or cultural roles attached to it?

It's like saying

Do you like fixgloves

Yes, especially the evergreen ones

What evergreen ones?

Oh I call the plants I like fixgloves because foxgloves are lovely, here's one

Oh you mean holly? I don't like holly as it prickly

It's not holly it's a foxglove

"So, by "female gender identity" you mean the same class of thing as "human species identity" or "eye colour identity"? That is, my "gender identity" is what I know to be factually true about the sex of my body based on physical evidence, the same way I know about the species I am or the colour my eyes are?"

It's your innate knowledge of your own sex. Your mistake is thinking that it is purely derived from observing what reproductive organs you have, when actually it's something you are born with, hard-wired into the brain.

www.endocrine.org/advocacy/position-statements/transgender-health

"The medical consensus in the late 20th century was that transgender and gender incongruent individuals suffered a mental health disorder termed “gender identity disorder.” Gender identity was considered malleable and subject to external influences. Today, however, this attitude is no longer considered valid. Considerable scientific evidence has emerged demonstrating a durable biological element underlying gender identity.1, 2 Individuals may make choices due to other factors in their lives, but there do not seem to be external forces that genuinely cause individuals to change gender identity."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421517/

"I'd react the same way to "you are a woman" as I would to "you are a human" or "you have blue eyes". To me, it's a value-neutral biological fact. If I disliked the fact I was a woman and didn't want to be one, I'd react the same way to "you are a woman" as I would to "you are overweight" — I don't like it, and it might upset me to think too much about it, but it's a boring old fact."

Right, so you have a female gender identity. That's fine. So do I.

If you didn't have a female gender identity, then the statement "you are a woman" would immediately seem wrong to you. It doesn't, so you have a female gender identity.

If someone said “you are a woman” it wouldn’t “feel right”, it would be right, because I am a woman.

I could only have a “male gender identity” if I were mistaken about what sex I am.

My imagination says man and woman are feeling the same as each other once you remove biology

Firstly, you are forgetting that there are now quite a lot of people who transitioned young with puberty blockers or got on to hormones before much damage was done. If you met Jazz Jennings without knowing she was trans, you wouldn't have the faintest idea.

Secondly, humans are very variable - you must have seen short men with narrow shoulders, small hands and androgynous voices. When trans women with those characteristics transition, there is often nothing to give them away.

So again, passing trans women also get passed over because of the assumption that they might get pregnant.

Yo do see that if the word woman means feeling not biology , many of us don't know if we feel like a msn of not ? How do I know?

I only say I am a woman because I was told that biology determines this

If you had no gender identity, then "you are a woman" would feel wrong and so would "you are a man".

If you didn't have a female gender identity, then the statement "you are a woman" would immediately seem wrong to you. It doesn't, so you have a female gender identity.

To tell me I must have a gender identity is to try to tell me I must believe in an ideology that I don't believe in.

It is. I'm not a person who feels I actually have the brain of the opposite sex. They are likely to have a psychological condition, like body dysmorphia or anorexia, where their perception of their own body is distressing to them. There is even a condition where the sufferer feels they are made of glass.

So it's their identity which is an issue, I just know I am a human female, and have done since I knew there were two types of humans in one important sense.

Sorry, just to try again to explain my confusion again. To know that you are something or you are not something, or to feel like something or not feel like something, surely you have to know what that something is?

So what is a man or a woman if it isn't defined in terms of biological sex or gender stereotypes? What is it that you are either identifying with or not identifying with?

You said you would be more comfortable being acknowledged as a woman rather than non-binary. So you identify as a woman.

I find that really problematic. My teenager neice has decided I'm non binary and shared that with her friends. If I were 20 years younger, she'd possibly be correct. Certainly my sense of being a woman is rooted purely in biology. I'm uncomfortable with any definition of being a woman which isn't based in biology, have been diagnosed with body dsymorphia and particularly hate my breasts. If I could choose I'd pick man but only in the sense the penis possessor I share a bed with is a man.

I don't consider myself to have a gender identity. My internal sense of self is aggressive, competitive and in most non face to face environments I am often taken for a man...especially online gaming.

So If you are biologically female

Do you think there is anything about you beyond that that which makes you different to men ?

If no, then we have make gender identity, did I get that right?

I agree - I know several trans women who have been raped - they were all fairly young when it happened - of the ages I know for sure, one was 12, another was 44, but I don't count 44 as "old", and she doesn't look her age.

A transwoman cannot be of childbearing age and bear the additional risk of rape that is pregnancy simply because a transwoman cannot fall pregnant.

If your argument focussed on transmen we'd be in agreement. Because that is the only case where the risk involved with rape are the same. Basic biology.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't understand what would feel wrong about being called a man or a woman if you don't attach any specific meaning to those words. If there is no definition of the terms man or woman, either in terms of biological sex or gender stereotypes, then surely they are just words without any specific meaning? Same with the pronouns? How could anyone feel strongly that certain words do or don't apply to them unless there is a particular meaning attached to those words that they feel does or doesn't apply to them?

So for me, I consider myself to be a woman because I define that word in terms of biological sex. I know that the term "man" doesn't apply to me for the same reasons.

For those who don't define these words in terms of sex/stereotypes, what do these words actually mean?

"First off: It's often not obvious which women are infertile or in the menopause."

Or trans.

It's more obvious than an internal bodily function that isn't outwardly visible. Male characteristics developed through puberty don't magically disappear when identifying as trans.

I didn't downplay trans rape. But nice try.