Help explain non binary

So gender identity is at best a secondary sexual characteristic that sometimes doesn't align with your bio sex? Why does it get to be the determining factor of sex? A male with a "female gender identity" is no more female than a male with gynaecomastia is female.

This is another compelling quote, that is highly relevant to this thread. She's right, the double standards are inhumane.

There are now numerous guides for schools that talk about the best practice for supporting transgender young people. These all talk about the trauma of being misgendered or the pain that can be caused by not respecting pronouns. We are told that not affirming someone’s gender is an act of violence and can lead to young people attempting suicide. The latest advice from Stonewall also talks about “listening to the child or young person and following their lead and preferences”. The Trans Inclusion Toolkit from Allsorts states “Follow the lead of the child, young person and if appropriate their family”.

It is hard to understand why people promoting these guides on how to best support trans young people, do not share the same empathy for children & young people with different sex development. One recent comment stated that those of us arguing that it is wrong to force a third sex narrative onto all intersex people, have a “fear of being othered away from our female safety nets”. This seemed to dismiss any of the trauma & real loss that many intersex women have experienced. Born and raised as girls and then finding out as young teens that they could not have children & could have difficulty having sex due to lack of vaginal depth – as well as finding out about your chromosomes and internal testes. You do feel ripped away from everything you thought was true about yourself. It takes time to process this and grieve for these very real losses, before being able to put yourself back together again in a way that you can feel positive about living with a different body. This can take time and patience and it is essential that anyone working with children and families facing these issues, is able to be compassionate and sensitive to their needs. The current trend to other intersex people as a third sex or neither male or female, offers newly diagnosed children & families, none of the same empathy and understanding that is considered vitally important when supporting young people with gender dysphoria. Information sent to schools, often includes the Genderbread Person or Gender Unicorn, which has intersex listed as a third sex, alongside ‘other’. The Allsorts Toolkit references intersex, although the information they provide is misleading and even inaccurately implies that many intersex people transition as they have been misdiagnosed in infancy.

That would imply trans women were somehow not women.

They aren't. If they were they could be pregnant but the last time I checked there was no birth canal in a penis.

The very existence of males and females explains our existence and also allows us to have this discussion in the first place. Denying biology and claiming that black is white and vice versa means doesn't change that. How someone presents is entirely separate from biological reality.

I am a woman. Despite my excessive body hair and active sweat glands I am entirely female. I am a binary despite other women, and some men, having considerably less body hair than me. I can get pregnant. I have bled practically every month since I was 11. But I like masculine clothes. I don't have big boobs. I like dresses too. I am not a stereotype, but I am still a woman. Because biology.

Transwomen are men who don't conform, and they should absolutely be able to not conform. But that doesn't mean their biology is anything other than male.

'in against' not 'again'

Both trans women and women who don't happen to be trans (if only there was a word for that) experience sexism. The amount varies from person to person. A girl who doesn't happen to be trans who is born into a liberal feminist family in Denmark, will arguably suffer less sexism in her life than a passing trans woman in Bangladesh.

You said

young transitioners are subject to the same sexism as girls who don't happen to be trans because no one can tell they are trans.

No, you are wrong, your assertion is incorrect.

You are now bringing transwomen again young girls into the discussion. That is a sleight of hand.

I don't believe you have any idea what sexist discrimination young females actually experience. No matter where they are. You are simply making assumptions and handwaving away the sexist discrimination that still exists in the world, regardless of the country, for females. Those born with a body formed to produce large gametes regardless of whether or not they do.

I am sure that many parent's on this forum can fill you in though.

By the way, do you understand that there are people who have a habit of discriminating against young females by never acknowledging the significant health risks for medical transitioning.

Women are generally not comfortable with too many masculine physical characteristics. Ask any woman with excessive facial hair. Most women are also not comfortable being perceived as men by everyone either.

Are you comparing women having excessive facial hair due to hormonal imbalances to having a penis and testicles?!

Report, report, report! No compelling of speech going on here by having women repeatedly deleted for saying what the think. DARVOtastic.

These are quotes from another blog entry.

"I have repeatedly been called transphobic for asking that intersex people are not conflated with trans identities, as this silences our voices, causes public confusion about our needs and concerns and even leads to the groups that support us losing out on desperately needed funding. I have been told that I am a right-wing authoritarian in league with white supremacists, mainly because I think it is important to listen to the voices of mostly left-wing women in the UK, with long histories of social justice activism and working with vulnerable people. These are absurd accusations and are similarly used to silence many women and their groups.

I believe that anyone who identifies as trans should be supported and free to live without stigma and discrimination – and I fully support any adult who chooses to transition, if this allows them to live in the way that is best for them. However, I also believe that I deserve my voice to be heard and my own story to be told."

[...]

"Intersex people are a diverse group and this is represented in our needs. However, most us have a sex easily identified at birth and learn to live with our different body & are happy to stay in the sex in which we grew up. Although a few intersex people may choose to identify in different ways, this is not a priority for most – and although sensitive and inclusive language is vital, pronouns and third sex markers are rarely a priority issue. There are rare occasions when it is extremely difficult to determine the sex of an infant or when a difference in sex characteristics can be associated with an underlying life threatening medical condition. These children and their families should not have their complex histories used or weaponised, without any consideration to the significant trauma they will possibly have experienced."

Full thing here
differently-normal.com/2020/06/10/example-post-3/

Crikey.

Maybe you just need to read my posts more slowly and think harder about them.

I've already given them way more thought than they merit.

You don’t get to use it for women who don’t want it applied, no.

Oh but wait - you are compelling my speech by saying I can't use the word "cis".

Well, you might need to explain it better if you want to take people with you.

Both trans women and women who don't happen to be trans (if only there was a word for that) experience sexism.

You don’t need it the sentence works as trans women and women

None. Of. This. Makes. Sense.

I think the complex reality of being born with a DSD, going through childhood surgery, being raised by a family who have been told to lie to you, and how you might realise, is being massively oversimplified in this thread.

Here is one woman's story of how she only discovered the truth when her GP told her, after she was so old she'd finished university!

differently-normal.com/2020/08/03/tale-of-a-good-gp/

All men experience sexism , so what?

Yes - trans women don't "change sex" because they were already female. That's the whole reason they had to transition.

If they were already female why did they need to transition?

Is being trans an illness then or what?