Help explain non binary

These comments are ridiculous and incorrect. Being female definitely does carry with it very real risks of all the things you mention - family rejection (due to patriarchal sex stereotyping, particularly if you're gender-conforming or not 'feminine' enough to meet your family's particular gender steorotyped expectations), unemployment (due to sex-based discrimination), bullying (again sex-based), and homelessness (particularly as women generally earn less than men and are more likely to be in abusive relationships, both of which are clear risk factors for ending up homeless). There are also many people who would 'advise' women and girls 'to find ways to stop you being yourself' if they didn't met those people's ideas of what is acceptable behaviour for someone of the female sex. Your post is totally disingenous and completely ignores the structural discrimination that women face in virtually every aspect of their life. A bizarre post in the 'feminism chat' section

A lot of sweeping generalisations and exaggeration if you're dealing with women in western society and in particular the vast majority of homeless people are male.

She thrived during lockdown as obviously there was no school. I think that’s how she got the confidence to come out as non binary

Or more likely she spent a lot more time on the internet during that time.

(speaking as a former weird kid who at that age was taunted for having boys' shoes, incidentally the exact same shoes as another, non-bullied kid who I was informed it was okay for, because she was a tomboy)

TBH kids in her position are likely to be bullied no matter what. The same declared identity, clothing choice, etc. will be treated very differently coming from the weird kid than from the popular kid.

I really feel for todays 11yos that they feel they need to be in these pigeon holes. I have a 16 year old DS only in the past year or so has he mentioned his friends putting themselves into categories as they become sexually active.

He has friends who are non binary, gay, lesbian, trans , straight, bi and asexual. I am sure that if I see them again in 10 years time some will be as they are now some will be different, they are finding their way thats all. If she is being bullied then you need to take it up with the school.

Non binary to me at 49 years old is the same as the 70s/80s androgyny era. The youth of each era needs to be different than the last so new names are made up but really they are just rehashes. But shhh don't tell them

Cis privilege, eh?

Seeing as "cis" is a made up concept, invented by gender ideologists, "cis privilege" must be too.

Hate groups? What people who say there is nothing wrong if you don't fit the female mould? People who say you don't need any medical treatment just to be yourself ? Yeah real hate

I know who I think are the hate groups and it seems like you represent them

But vulnerable to unemplyability and bullying just for being female

And additional bullying/ostracism if you are not sufficiently feminine female

"To be fair being female makes us all vulnerable?"

Obvs, but not vulnerable to family rejection, unemployability, bullying, and homelessness just for being cis. Nor do you have people on Mumsnet advising your family members to find ways to stop you being yourself, and referring them to hate groups for advice.

Cis privilege, eh?

To be fair being female makes us all vulnerable? So of course a 11 year old female is vulnerable, even more so when they have ASD, I’m not sure being non binary makes her even more vulnerable?

My dd also has ASD and identifies as pan sexual, she is also vulnerable not because of how she labels herself but due to being young and naive, she doesn’t really understand the threat males are too females and how a man now identifying as female could be a risk. I’m sure most teens are the same?

To me non binary means many things, I guess of I was a teen now I would identify as non binary, I have never really been girly but am very much a female, I sometimes wear girls clothes and sometimes wear men’s clothes but most of my clothes are probably suitable for both sexes. I like to think I can do anything a man can (apart from the obvious), I try and fix things myself, my hobbies are often what some may call “male hobbies” but women do them too. Most of my friends are male and I’m often called “one of the lads”. I use the female toilets though I have been into male toilets when I was younger as there’s never a queue 🤣. Was I vulnerable as a child/teen? Yes, very much so but again it was due to my age and me not realising what men were capable of.

I think it’s important that we educate ours daughters of the risks males pose to females and how men using female spaces is a huge risk. I don’t care what my dd identifies as or what I identify as but what maters is that females are safe from males.

As for longing for the 1970s.... really?

Yeah... Is it not so hard to grasp that gender non conforming girls were left alone apart from being labelled "tomboys".

They were not put on puberty blockers, given breast binders, given testosterone etc. They were not labelled "trans". They were labelled "tomboys". Because the idea of gender non conformity was not a medical issue back then.

So, as far as wellbeing for gender non conforming girls is concerned, yes the 70's was more progressive.

GCAutist

I'm glad it helped you in your time.

Your last sentence is really helpful to me. Non binary is a safe identity without it needing it to be trans non binary.

I agree that gender identity isn't the same as gender expression, despite the fact that gender expression is used to diagnose gender dysphoria.
That's why there should be no pressure on this child to change their appearance or body whatsoever. One can absolutely be non-binary exactly as you are - yet lots of people bind their breasts or take hormones to change their bodies, despite gender identity being a "freestanding" innate thing that doesn't need to reference a sexed body or gender expression to manifest itself.

Growing up I didn’t want to be a girl. I knew I was physically but I wasn’t happy with what it meant in 1970s/80s society. Being called a tomboy was a relief as I escaped from femininity that I just couldn’t identify with. My family embraced me as I was. Now I feel I’d have been pushed into claiming a non binary identity by peers but I’d have had peers that I didn’t have growing up as a tomboy. I know people hate the term but for me it was something positive.

Growing up autistic you recognise your difference from a very early age and you look for reasons. I decided the reason I didn’t have many friends was because I didn’t like what society told
Me was traditionally girl things so tomboy was safe for me. I don’t believe it’s any different now growing up as autistic just that there’s an entire ideology built around gender that forces kids who were like me to pick a side... and as autistics we are looking for ways to fit in. Queer groups are ideal as they claim they celebrate and accept difference, as adults we can see that it’s conformity not difference at all but as a child we’re looking for our safe places, where we are made to feel we belong. As an autistic child we’ll accept anywhere that will accept us as we are. The attraction of non binary is that it’s not against a so-called societal norm it is a category where not fitting in is the norm.

On the face of it, it’s harmless but taken as part of a wider trans agenda, labelling it trans non binary draws it into a different circle. One that forces binary onto everyone and makes stereotypes acceptable along with all the other crap TRA throws at us.

It’s so bloody hard growing up as an autistic girl. Nothing you do is socially right and nowhere accepts you, even when they say they do.

OP I’d tread carefully. I’m am totally gender critical but what your sister is seeking is acceptance from peers - not her parents or you. You may need to play along a bit while keeping an eye on things. Introducing her to gender critical theories won’t necessarily give her the peer based family she seeks. I see it in adult autistic communities all the time so the need for acceptance doesn’t just go away post puberty and the voracity with which autistic women are in support of trans issues suggests that until wider society makes a change that it’s not going to be a simple fix.

Tomboy is such a sexist term. It reminds me of the nasty old word for prostitute.

"Tom" meaning a prostitute is a slang term used in London UK, and, if TV shows are to be believed, its usage is particularly prevalent in the Police Force. ... Some have claimed that "tom" meaning a prostitute derives from "Thomas More" equalling "w h o r e".

I can't see a lot of difference between the judgement behind tom and tomboy. In both cases it's that girls have exceeded the acceptable female boundaries and must be labelled.

Using it to explain typically male activities in males is barrel bottom scraping at it's worst.

Tomboy is a ghastly expression.

So far as AssainatedBeauty's and GNCQ'S criticism of it, the word is used on this board by posters saying they were tomboys- without any qualification about it "being back in the day". So I'm not sure that Shizaku is the only poster who didn't get the message about it being outdated and sexist.

As for longing for the 1970s.... really?

I will gladly apologise for a de-rail caused by my personal dislike of the sexist term "tomboy". One which was used negatively about me as a child and teenager by some.

Still don't have any explanation of what gender identity is beyond an indescribable inscrutable feeling with no identifiers.

The fact remains - gender identity and gender norms are 2 different things

So what is gender identity based on if not gender norms?