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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I just came out as GC at work, to the big boss and I feel a bit sick

845 replies

JustcameoutGC · 15/04/2021 12:34

I have NCed for this. I have just outed myself as GC in work to the big boss (and some others cced in).

I was asked to sign off on something that I just couldn't and I said so, and explained why.

I literally feel sick. Like I have put a big fat GC target on my back. My org is totally woke. I wonder how many times my response has been forwarded already.

OP posts:
Kenshi · 15/04/2021 18:06

I'd also like to add that the choice of the word cervix as a sex identifier is particularly poor as cervix just means 'neck' and if you look up any diagram of the human spine you will see the first few vertebrae (at the top) are called cervical. Since some women don't have a cervix, for different reasons including having to have it removed due to cancer, using the word cervix is more appropriate to term all people with, since a woman can live without her reproductive cervix but no one can live without a neck to hold their head on.

Blibbyblobby · 15/04/2021 18:04

Worth mentioning in all the cervix having chat, is that the cervical spine also exists, is found in both sexes and is a completely different part of the body to the cervix, despite the latter being named after the former.

Datun · 15/04/2021 17:59

@B33Fr33

And that happened
Have you tried going on social media and saying a woman is an adult human female?

I'm not recommending it. I'm just asking if you've tried it?

B33Fr33 · 15/04/2021 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Datun · 15/04/2021 17:50

And yes, bloody well done op.

A brave thing to do.

R0wantrees · 15/04/2021 17:49

I don't see it happening any time soon sadly Rowantrees. Unless Ofsted (and/or parents) get tough on it. But this is probably an issue for another thread. Have a well deserved drink OP!

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4220123-school-transgender-policy

ValancyRedfern · 15/04/2021 17:42

I don't see it happening any time soon sadly Rowantrees. Unless Ofsted (and/or parents) get tough on it. But this is probably an issue for another thread. Have a well deserved drink OP!

TwistedEyeOfHorus · 15/04/2021 17:36

Accurate language matters, and well done for speaking out when something clashed with your beliefs.

Hopefully no bad repercussions: sending strength.

BatleyTownswomensGuild · 15/04/2021 17:35

OMG OP, that was so brave. My org is wokier than thou and I absolutely do not dare put my head above the parapet. There's no nuanced discussion here at all.

peak2021 · 15/04/2021 17:34

Well done OP for standing up for women.

R0wantrees · 15/04/2021 17:32

ValancyRedfern
There will no doubt be a lot of PHSE teachers who will have to re-evaluate their resources and teaching practice.

picklemewalnuts · 15/04/2021 17:27

"I think people are more than capable of working out whether they are a person with a cervix, and that choice of language protects men who still have a cervix."

My two adult sons and my husband- all three with good, well paid careers, weren't sure whether I have a prostate, and didn't know whether they had a cervix.

They haven't had health issues, and haven't been through pregnancy where the cervix is prodded poked and measured.

Much easier to use male/female, man/woman. Those with trans identities know only too well what they were 'assigned as at birth'.

YoniAndGuy · 15/04/2021 17:25

You don’t ‘come out’ as GC.

Oh but they are, my dear.

More and more and more of them are doing exactly that.

And, I believe you don't get to decide what covers 'coming out' - do you? Sounds a bit phobic-y to me Grin

AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo · 15/04/2021 17:25

Oh! Thank you to whoever shared PeachYoghurt’s YouTube channel, she’s amazing.... extraordinary, breaking all those gender stereotypes and yet somehow I still know she’s a woman! But the TRAs are the progressive ones hey?

ValancyRedfern · 15/04/2021 17:24

Rowantrees unfortunately this teacher would contend that she isn't contravening any of those guidelines. As far as she is concerned she is being kind towards trans student. I am part of a large online comminuty of Pshe teachers and I am very much a lone GC voice. On the plus side, I haven't been banned yet, so maybe the moderator secretly agrees with me...

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 15/04/2021 17:18

Proud of you OP. I feel physically sick whenever I hear “chest feeders” or such. Like I need to be afraid as a woman .

R0wantrees · 15/04/2021 17:16

What makes me so angry is that she is basically assuming the kids already know who are 'people who menstruate' and who are 'people who don't menstruate'. Even if half the 'pwm' in Yr 7 haven't actually started yet. So she is abdicating her responsibility of teaching those basic facts in favour of furthering an ideology.

Teachers and schools need to ensure they understand their statutory responsibilities under the Department of Education guidelines issued September 2020. The majority of resources and training delivered by external organisations which promote gender ideology will not be appropriate.

extract:
"When deciding if a resource is suitable, you should consider if it:
aligns to the teaching requirements set out in the statutory guidance
would support pupils in applying their knowledge in different contexts and settings
is age-appropriate - think about the age, developmental stage and background of your pupils
is evidence-based and contains robust facts and statistics
fits into your curriculum plan
is from a credible source"
www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum#using-external-agencies

AvocadoBathroom · 15/04/2021 17:16

It's going to be interesting when the sunlight hits and more women understand what is going on - the backlash is inevitable. Lawsuits unavoidable. And those who let it happen, held accountable. It's just a matter of time now.

AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo · 15/04/2021 17:15

@SweetPetrichor

You don’t ‘come out’ as GC. If I worked with you, I’d be reporting such behaviour for further education and disciplinary action. I reported similar behaviour relatively recently and it was handled very well. I don’t think you have anything to be proud of here and I hope any decent work place will remind you of company policy and/or professional behaviour.
And if I was the Manager you reported this to, I’d either be trying not to laugh in your face or bollocking you for wasting my time.
Cazaletcousin · 15/04/2021 17:15

Well done OP💐

ValancyRedfern · 15/04/2021 17:13

@Floisme

That was indeed a point I raised! What did she say?
Funnily enough she didn't respond to that point! (it was via social media in a pshe teachers' group, not face to face).
MinervaBoudicca · 15/04/2021 17:12

@JustcameoutGC

Thank you all for the support. I made the step in the summer of talking to friends and family about this. That was hard. I have many friends on the other side of the debate, and the pandemic has meant those conversations have been left hanging.

I have been really hesitant to do or say anything in the workplace. But I had to today, primarily because in my professional view there is a reputational risk of our company being associated with exclusive gender neutral language such as cervix havers or chest feeders as well as the risk of confusing the people the material is aimed at. This risk needs to be properly assessed and managed before this radical change in language is adopted. I would have been negligent not to speak up.

This is in addition to my personal views that erasure of women from language, particularly around health, is really damaging and disenfranshising.

I don't think I have ever gotten past a handful of replies to anything I have ever posted. Trending is new to me. I have never been trendy.

Brava, brava: language matters. Clear language really matters when services are targeted at specific groups. This isn’t about being nice or nasty. It’s about being competent
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 15/04/2021 17:11

Well done, OP.

Could I ask the posters on this thread who are up on this, what sort of things would I be looking for in our company policies that would contravene GC thinking? We have the usual suite but to my reading, they're non-descript and have probably been lifted from any other generic policy

Sophoclesthefox · 15/04/2021 17:08

Well done OP. Clear language is so important. I've been in conversation with a fellow pshe teacher who thinks it's appropriateand desirable to use 'people who do/don't menstruate' instead of girls when teaching a mixed group of 11 year olds about periods. It assumes a level of knowledge in the students (that the boys and girls know to which group they belong, so they aren't misled by the the teacher's obfuscation language), that many 11 year olds simply do not have. Never mind the fact that that's precisely the knowledge it is our job to teach them!

Absolutely.

At 11, I wouldn’t have though that “people who menstruate” would have applied to me. Firstly, I hadn’t started yet, and secondly, through a combination of parental coyness and my own complete misreading of the Tampax ad, I’d concluded that sporty girls like me didn’t have to worry about their periods because they didn’t get them 😬 I got a nasty shock when that was cleared up for me.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 15/04/2021 17:08

@SweetPetrichor

You don’t ‘come out’ as GC. If I worked with you, I’d be reporting such behaviour for further education and disciplinary action. I reported similar behaviour relatively recently and it was handled very well. I don’t think you have anything to be proud of here and I hope any decent work place will remind you of company policy and/or professional behaviour.
You and your employer need further education about Articles 9 and 10 of the Human Rights Act. And about the fact that sex is a protected characteristic. Taking disciplinary action against an employee for expressing views relating to the rights of her protected characteristic is likely to be a breach of the EA.

And patting yourself on the back for silencing someone's right to discuss women's rights is a fucking terrible look.

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