I just came out as GC at work, to the big boss and I feel a bit sick

This is an interesting thread. I hadn’t quite put it together, but a few years ago a female colleague was repeatedly sexually harassed by a transwoman colleague.

The outcome of the disciplinary action against the transwoman was that the transwoman was redeployed to another department, and my colleague was told to attend diversity training.

That's appalling.

I am a well educated woman, but I swear to you that until my late twenties, after I had had 3 children, that I thought wee came out of your vagina. I couldn’t understand why tampons didn’t get soaked and need changing every time you went to the loo.

There's a comic that depicts a conversation between two very young children (a girl and a trans girl) and the latter is describing how her clitoris (yes this is the word used) is larger than her friend's, so much so that it's usually considered a penis. Her friend asks if she can pee through hers and remarks how handy that must be for camping. The restyling of anatomy and physiology to fit untruths is common. It's important not to add to it.

Comic image: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4174892-Creator-of-assigned-male-comics-is-a-little#prettyPhoto/1/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4174892-Creator-of-assigned-male-comics-is-a-little

MeltsAway

I think a lot of young "woke" activists who call themselves feminists, don't quite realise how fragile their rights are, because they've not lived in a world without them, nor seen the work required to fight for those rights.

I agree that this is a huge factor, I make a point of telling my kids what was unavailable to me at their age just due to being female, and what things I benefited from which had been won by battles fought by older women.

However, I think an additional issue is that an awful lot of older women are just clueless because they have been fortunate to not have encountered sexism working against them in their lives and do not have the interest and / or imagination to appreciate how women are affected by this.

Then there is the opposite problem to this which is the personal. Due to the explosion of trans-identifying individuals, there are more people now who know someone who is trans, and they base their opinion solely on the basis of the people they know, they take it as a personal attack on their friends or family when GC men or women try to exclude them, they cannot seem to comprehend that it is the same as me excluding my husband even though everyone who knows him knows he's a good bloke.

HR. Doh!

This is an interesting thread. I hadn’t quite put it together, but a few years ago a female colleague was repeatedly sexually harassed by a transwoman colleague.

The outcome of the disciplinary action against the transwoman was that the transwoman was redeployed to another department, and my colleague was told to attend diversity training.

At the time we were bemused and thought the HT department was just a bit shit, but looking back from here, I can see my colleague had been found guilty of wrongthink.

It will take a while, but these new laws will not survive the sunlight of publicity. This will be seen, in time, as a moment of collective madness, when a group of men claimed (against all logic and reason) that they were women, and for some incomprehensible reason, governments went along with it

I certainly hope so, @AnyOldPrion - I really appreciate your optimism and rationality. I view a future dominated by gender ideology extremist ideas with a sense of heavy deja vu - I remember the news reports of legislation such as equal pay, abolition of rape in marriage, maternity leave at work, and all sorts of other steps forward to recognising women as fully human.

I think a lot of young "woke" activists who call themselves feminists, don't quite realise how fragile their rights are, because they've not lived in a world without them, nor seen the work required to fight for those rights.

no longer let people use the word gender unchallenged. If they mean sex then they need to say sex because that's half the bloody problem these days

I've also corrected people in the workplace in a meeting when they said gender but unequivocally meant biological sex. Even had to explain "non binary". Shockingly, the views expressed by senior colleagues on gender identity were not fully in line with company diversity policy. I probably should have reported us all (myself included) for re-education and discipline, perhaps a spell in a gulag.

Mmn654123 exactly, it sounds like they haven’t actually done anything except have the “wrong thoughts”

[quote Trixie78]@SweetPetrichor

You don’t ‘come out’ as GC. If I worked with you, I’d be reporting such behaviour for further education and disciplinary action. I reported similar behaviour relatively recently and it was handled very well. I don’t think you have anything to be proud of here and I hope any decent work place will remind you of company policy and/or professional behaviour.

You must be a joy to work with 🍩[/quote]
What ‘behaviour’?

[quote DrawingLife]@poppycat10

"gender reassignment" is the term used in the Equality Act 2010 for people with a trans identity and it doesn't require the person to undergo any physical changes at all.

It's the correct term to use on lists of the protected characteristics that organisations need to be mindful of not discriminating against. Many use wrong and ambiguous terms like "gender identity" or "gender" and many leave out "sex" altogether, despite it being a separate protected characteristic, namely the one that protects women's right to single sex spaces.[/quote]
I’ve checked and am pleased to see my organisation uses the correct list, unedited!

OP it seems very strange to say that you are brave for pointing out to your work, something that could be detrimental to them, but it seems these are the signs of the times. Imagine what punishment people like SweetPetrichor would see you face if you’d spoken up earlier, when your own personal line in the sand had been crossed, or like many people not aware of the situation, had, in all innocence said “but women don’t have penises ”

for you OP for your push against the madness.

I suspect part of the problem may be related to many of the computer systems used in the NHS and probably veterinary practices having been imported from the USA

So many of these problems have been the unquestioned import of things from USA.

There's no logic ROwantrees it's just a powerplay really.

Its revealing that its a powerplay by/ colluded with those familiar with the word 'gynaecology' who fail to consider the impact on the many people who for various reasons would be unfamiliar.

My understanding was that health messaging was supposed to be as clear and direct as possible, avoiding euphemism and jargon.

They were using gender as a euphemism for sex.

I suspect part of the problem may be related to many of the computer systems used in the NHS and probably veterinary practices having been imported from the USA

for you OP.

I am a well educated woman, but I swear to you that until my late twenties, after I had had 3 children, that I thought wee came out of your vagina. I couldn’t understand why tampons didn’t get soaked and need changing every time you went to the loo.

So I can well understand that people don’t know whether they have a cervix. Clarity of language when it comes to medical matters is vital.

I live in hope that the Queen refuses to sign of that piece of shite lawmaking.

There's no logic ROwantrees it's just a powerplay really.

And also, if the idea is to remove the word "Frau" so transmen don't get upset by being reminded that they are women but then replace Frau with a term that contains "to birth" and "mother" I'm not sure that this makes any significant difference to transmen.

In UK there appears to be a trend amongst some women's health organisations use 'gynae' as an inclusive catch all.

Wiki
"The word "gynaecology" comes from the oblique stem (γυναικ-) of the Greek word γυνή (gyne) semantically attached to "woman", and -logia, with the semantic attachment "study".

Which rather begs the question how inclusive/rational is it to use a Greek word for the study of woman's health in order to avoid the word woman?

The fact that Scotland are even considering including some similar law is terrifyingly close to home,

The hate crime bill was voted through ThumbWitchesAbroad

16.4% of adults in England, or 7.1 million people, can be described as having 'very poor literacy skills.' They can understand short straightforward texts on familiar topics accurately and independently, and obtain information from everyday sources, but reading information from unfamiliar sources, or on unfamiliar topics, could cause problems. This is also known as being functionally illiterate

literacytrust.org.uk/parents-and-families/adult-literacy/

So when we start mangling the English language like this, we are excluding millions of people who couldn’t understand the phrase “people with cervices” if they were given a leaflet or saw a poster, but who would understand the word “woman”.

According to Jo’s trust, nearly 50% of women don’t know what a cervix is, and this is higher in BAME communities, so again, this is a vast population to exclude or confuse, and it impacts most on populations already more vulnerable to poor health care.

My reading of the OP is that she may be trying to avoid the exclusion of this population, and it’s a measure of the sheer insanity of where we are now that she risks her job if she brings it up. Many thanks to sweetpetricho for the live illustration that this is an actual threat, and not baseless.

@phodopus

I totally agree with you that "Frau/Frauen" should be used rather than "Für Menschen mit Einem Gebärmutterhals" but there is at least some indication in that word that it is about women which is missing in cervix if you don't already know what cervix means.
And also, if the idea is to remove the word "Frau" so transmen don't get upset by being reminded that they are women but then replace Frau with a term that contains "to birth" and "mother" I'm not sure that this makes any significant difference to transmen.

I swear to god I'm not a thicksickle. I don't know what the fuck happened that I didn't know this."

🦡🌈🤍

Oh no, same badger. I don't recall ot being talked about in Biology or PHSE classes at all.

So if I'd got my first smear test invite and th letter and leaflet had just referred to "people with a cervix"...well, I dunno

re. the madness subsiding - I really fecking hope so but I have my doubts!

I agree that the current situation is very dark. The Denton’s document is a real eye-opener as to how we have arrived here and the absolute intention of those pushing this to do so under the radar as they know how unpopular it will be:

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/dentons-campaigns-kids-switch-gender-without-parental-approval

But there’s a reason why they have taken that tactic to it’s extremes. They are fully aware that they will receive pushback when the wider public finds out. These laws are not unpopular because everyone is transphobic. They are unpopular because as soon as you begin to examine them, it’s obvious they are unreasonable and unfair.

The clash with women’s rights was noted, accepted and understood when the GRA was brought in (deliberately kept quiet as acknowledged by C. Burns see Guardian link).

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

Pushing unfair and unreasonable laws through is, of course, possible if you have enough influence through quiet pushes into influential positions as well as through monetarised lobbying. But keeping unfair and unreasonable laws in place when the public finds out and finally begins to push back will ultimately fail.

It can take a long time to get laws repealed, which is why it’s good that women in the UK woke up and began the pushback before self-ID was pushed through. But it will occur.

In Norway a trans campaigner recently announced they had reported a politician to the police for saying only women could have babies. It turned out it was a false claim, but I believe there will be women who are willing to risk a prison sentence to highlight how ludicrous the law is.

Publicity through campaigns by women are what will end this. Additionally I think there will be ongoing publicity as more problems with WPATH and the intense push for medical transitioning of children comes to light.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Bell-v-Tavistock-Judgment.pdf

It will take a while, but these new laws will not survive the sunlight of publicity. This will be seen, in time, as a moment of collective madness, when a group of men claimed (against all logic and reason) that they were women, and for some incomprehensible reason, governments went along with it.