NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

the workplace doesn't feel very inclusive of me on these issues

No, but our feelings aren't supposed to matter. They do

a message about violence against women after the Sarah Everard vigil and included the line "to our male colleagues, we know it's not you"

indeed. Why would they couch it in those terms? As you point out, statistically it's unlikely to be true.

NiceGerbil yes, I think that sums them up. It's the same women's network that sent out a message about violence against women after the Sarah Everard vigil and included the line "to our male colleagues, we know it's not you"
We're an organisation of thousands: statistically speaking it's definitely some of them

Eresh thanks! It's ridiculous that I'm actually nervous about it, isn't it. As someone said on another thread the other day, the workplace doesn't feel very inclusive of me on these issues

Loads of people have a reading age of around 8. I saw the stat at work, sure it's on Google.

On a thread ages ago the point that loads of people wouldn't know what a cervix was or whether they had one

Was countered with, well education needs to improve then.

So that's one perspective

That’s a good question.

16.4% of adults in England, or 7.1 million people, can be described as having 'very poor literacy skills.' They can understand short straightforward texts on familiar topics accurately and independently, and obtain information from everyday sources, but reading information from unfamiliar sources, or on unfamiliar topics, could cause problems. This is also known as being functionally illiterate

literacytrust.org.uk/parents-and-families/adult-literacy/

That’s a much higher percentage than I thought

I’m sure in this brave new world of “inclusive” language they can figure out if they’re a person who menstruates, or a cervix haver, if they just try a bit harder.

Here is a question.
What percentage of the population have a low level of literacy in English as compared to the percentage of people who are trans?

Do you know who is providing the workshop? Is it NHS in house, or an outsided agency?

SohoOrigami

I think things like that happen because lots of things especially employers know it's important to be inclusive of trans people.

However they don't really know what the language means/ are putting things in without thinking about it etc.

And so end up with all sorts of random groupings.

Of course the fact that it keeps changing all the time and is not logical doesn't help.

OP, you've given me a bit of a push to stick my head above the parapet and raise it. Thanks.

well done and good luck!

Just put this on another thread but think it applies here as well. The last bit anyway. The first bit will be rather lacking in context!

''To label women - white, middle-class, privileged, frothing, young mother, old mother, hysterical, fear mom gering, complacent, prudish, ranting, mean, middle aged, radical, pearl clutching - any old contradictory rubbish.'

There is a real thing that I talk about a lot about how society in general often sees the default male as people and everyone who is not default male in terms of types, stereotypes. This very much applies to women.

Some groups above and more generally stuff like
Old dear
Jail bait
Milf
Ball breaker
Neurotic
Etc

There's often confusion and unhappiness when women or girls step out of what they have been labelled.

It also splits us into sub groups that society and the media etc like to try and pit against each other. And not really a cohesive group with similar experiences worries etc.

Just occurred to me that the new approach is more of the same.

People with cervixes
Menstruators
Pregnant people
Etc etc

interesting.

And I wonder whether the insistence that we shouldn't mind comes from an underlying idea that women already are not really connected, but are lots of sub groups. So why the fuss.

Hmmmmm.'

Thanks

Top post, @NiceGerbil

My workplace women's network recently put out an invite to workshops on menopause: one was for everyone, specifically designed for managers and colleagues who haven't experienced menopause to understand the possible impact at work on those who are going through it. The other was for women to discuss their experiences and questions about menopause, which specified "for women including trans women"

I hesitated to query it because my workplace is woke 101. But it makes no sense at all - it specifically doesn't include trans men who will experience menopause, but does include trans women who won't?

OP, you've given me a bit of a push to stick my head above the parapet and raise it. Thanks.

I posted earlier to point out that

Menopause is still a topic that is not really discussed, although it's starting to be a bit more now.

The sensitivities around the topic do not seem to have been considered by the language the OP has complained about.

The best known thing about menopause is that your periods stop and that marks the end of your reproductive life.
For many women there is a lot of emotional overhead with this transition.
Some women have early menopause, limiting their childbearing years before they were expecting it. This can be a very big deal for them.
To say it's for people who menstruate when the whole point it it's the ceasing of that is also insensitive. Because it's defined by not menstruating any more. For women in peri they don't know if their next period will come or not. So are they menstruators or not?
Is a woman who does not have periods because she is ill, doing a lot of exercise, etc a menstruator? Periods are not an ongoing thing. They are unpredictable and we go through stages where they can stop. Come back. Etc. 'people who menstruate' is biologically illiterate as it does not reflect women's reality at all.

There is also the fact that there is a whole bunch of social judgement and bias around the menopause.

Eg
She's probably menopausal (emotional)
That no longer being fertile renders women pointless/ invisible to a fair extent to many people especially men
That attractiveness in women is pushed as very important in society. And it's linked with youth/ fertility. For many the transition is unwelcome and concern about what life will be like as they move into the 3rd stage of life (that only applies to women) is not uncommon
Women often hide at work if they are struggling as they fear losing their jobs

This is a massive sensitive area. The language is important.

The language used by the ops employer has taken zero account of the feelings of the vast vast vast majority of the group they are targeting.

Perhaps there could be two workshops: one for women which was female only, and the other one for males of all genders, non binary people of both sexes, and self defined "cis" women who would surely be happier in a fully inclusive space?

My apologies, I meant to say men of both sexes and males of all genders.

And there's an elephant in the room, that some of the reason for the intolerance of female people retaining the word 'woman' in association with any health need that is biologically specific, is not really coming from anyone female.

Perhaps there could be two workshops: one for women which was female only, and the other one for males of all genders, non binary people of both sexes, and self defined "cis" women who would surely be happier in a fully inclusive space?

If you use language to support the wellbeing of transmen but this then means that refugee women don't understand, or women with learning difficulties don't understand, then it's not really inclusive. Using language as simple and straightforward as possible is really important. Saying "people who menstruate" instead of "women and..." really does exclude people.

Well said. And then we see that it isn't actually about being inclusive to the most vulnerable in society at all, it's about pushing a personal ideology.

I think several threads are doing sterling work today in exposing the misogynistic assumptions underlying the push for "inclusive" language.

You see, ASugarr, there are many issues that affect women - adult human females - and we need that word left as it is, clearly understood by every English speaker, so that we have a name for our group.

Yes.

So no women who are on contraception where periods stop then? Or indeed as pointed out, who have had a hysterectomy.

Just to be clear agreeing with Sophoclesthefox above

Those women still go through a menopause, often many years after they have stopped menstruating. Some of them still need cervical screening, .

I would like the nhs to #bekind to women who have undergone major surgery and not treat them as if they are no longer women.

I’d have thought they’re worried that a biological woman who now identifies as a man wouldn’t want to be called a woman. I think that’s who they’re trying to include.

Can’t imagine they’re trying to include biological males no matter what they identify as ...they won’t be having a menopause. And yes I know the likes of stupid Yanniv is convinced they have periods. But don’t think the nhs as an employer would pander to such nonsense.