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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

438 replies

sunshineandhappy · 14/04/2021 14:22

I received a generic email from the well being team at the nhs trust I am employed by inviting me to a managing menopause workshop which was open to 'people who menstruate or people who will go through the menopause'.
This was my reply I was disappointed to see the following phrase ‘those who menstruate or those who will go through the menopause ‘ in the below email. The correct phrase for the target audience should surely include the word women, even if the other phrasing needs to be used as well, as this clumsy phrasing, whilst appearing to be inclusive to a minority, is actually exclusive to the way the vast majority of the target audience for this seminar may feel. I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female. I hope my opinion will be considered in the spirit in which it is meant, as all groups matter, and all relevant individuals should be considered when generic emails are being sent to a large number of staff.'
We will wait to see whether I receive any response

OP posts:
Lifeaintalwaysempty · 19/04/2021 17:07

But fundamentally this is a workshop about a biological process that women go through. Why is someone’s internal identity in any way relevant to that discussion? I know thAt ship has already sailed but it’s so stupid.

Kit19 · 19/04/2021 17:02

hmmmmmm

I am assured there was no intention to make anyone feel excluded, on the grounds of gender, gender diversity or gender reassignment status

you felt excluded on the grounds of sex not gender

Nonetheless we have again sought external advice on inclusive terminology are hopeful to find inclusive wording that recognises and does not diminish your or anyone’s identity

means we will get advice from Stonewall which is going to come back and say their language is fine

well at least they came back to you and didn't just handwave away your concerns. Be interesting to see what their update is

sunshineandhappy · 19/04/2021 16:50

A response from the head of equality and diversity. Not sure what if anything is actually going to happen now though. Will consider how to respond.

Thank you for your email. Your comments are noted – we have previously been made aware. From correspondence with the Staff Wellbeing team I am assured there was no intention to make anyone feel excluded, on the grounds of gender, gender diversity or gender reassignment status. There is no policy that says the word ‘women / woman’ cannot be used, we strongly recommend that using other categories and descriptors alongside to be inclusive. Nonetheless we have again sought external advice on inclusive terminology are hopeful to find inclusive wording that recognises and does not diminish your or anyone’s identity.

Just to add that at national level, NHS policies and guidance are increasingly adapting to be more inclusive in the use of language and terminology to reflect society. Gender Diversity in particular has seen unprecedented change in recent years, with more recently, a focus on maternity services following patient feedback. However, some specific services have already been being reviewed in line with identities, recognising some people define as gender – fluid on non-binary, for example the Aortic Abdominal Aneurism service as part of the wider NHS Screening Service has been through review. It is a complex area but the intention is always one that acts in a person’s best interest and accords them dignity and privacy.

Thank you for again for raising this important subject and I hope this can be resolved soonest.

OP posts:
Kit19 · 19/04/2021 16:49

@OnlyTheHousekeeper

Please can someone explain to me why, when transmen want to be seen as women, they would be offended by the word?

They consider themselves women so they could, if they wished, attend a women's group on menopause. It doesn't say (only those biologically women an attend, does it?)

I genuinely don't understand this point.

Transmen are biological women who want to be seen as men

Transwomen are biological men who want to be seen as women.

It's all ridiculously confusing....

Lifeaintalwaysempty · 19/04/2021 16:42

@OnlyTheHousekeeper because of the workshop is for ‘those who menstruate’ and it uses the word woman, this would imply
that women are those who menstruate, and that would make trans women feel sad and left out as they are biologically male and can’t.
The language used is offending biological women to avoid offending trans women.

OnlyTheHousekeeper · 19/04/2021 16:36

Please can someone explain to me why, when transmen want to be seen as women, they would be offended by the word?

They consider themselves women so they could, if they wished, attend a women's group on menopause. It doesn't say (only those biologically women an attend, does it?)

I genuinely don't understand this point.

AnyOldPrion · 19/04/2021 15:54

Adding my voice to the chorus of people who think that’s a great message. Anyone dismissing it would have to be deeply bigoted.

RabbitOfCaerbannog · 19/04/2021 15:15

Well done sunshine 👏

Cagedbirdsinging · 19/04/2021 15:14

Excellent email , succinct and incisive .
I'm looking forward to any response you receive .

RedDogsBeg · 19/04/2021 14:48

Excellent e-mail, points well made. Be interesting to see their response.

YawnyOwl · 19/04/2021 14:08

Star hope they respond thoughtfully!!

HildegardNightingale · 19/04/2021 14:04

@sunshineandhappy bravo.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/04/2021 13:57

Fantastic email, well done!

Ifyourefeelingsinister · 19/04/2021 13:54

Well done! Look forward to hearing how they respond.

ChattyLion · 19/04/2021 13:48

Good luck. that’s an excellent email.

Waitwhat23 · 19/04/2021 13:45

Fab letter, OP. I hope you get a good response

thetransbadger · 19/04/2021 13:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/04/2021 13:40

OP incredible work!

sunshineandhappy · 19/04/2021 13:36

This email is not my own work. It is the work of many thoughtful and eloquent Mumsnetters, I just put it all together. Smile

OP posts:
Kit19 · 19/04/2021 13:33

brilliant letter OP. I really hope it makes them think about what they're doing

MeltsAway · 19/04/2021 13:33

You don't take away my descriptor because someone else doesn't like it being applied to them, and it is extremely dehumanising to be referred to and reduced to the sum of my bodily functions

This is brilliant @sunshineandhappy I hope you receive an equally thoughtful response. And that they amend their language.

FrancesGumm · 19/04/2021 13:30

@sunshineandhappy - well done OP , that’s a marvellous email Flowers - says everything and more, just the right tone !

TeaMilkNonePlease · 19/04/2021 13:12

Well said OP, thank you for standing up on this issue. I hope you see progress as a result.

DaisiesandButtercups · 19/04/2021 13:05

Excellent letter/email OP. Star

I really look forward to seeing the response you receive.

Thank you again for pursuing it.

Smile
Jaxhog · 19/04/2021 12:59

Will they invite 'people with penises' to a talk on testicular cancer?

If only.