NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

I would ask them how they refer to men, eg for prostate stuff. Is it people who ejaculate? people with penises? that would include most trans women so how does that work? Or do they just use the perfectly sensible word MEN? I would keep asking until they answer this.

that women are being referred to by their bodily functions rather than their sex and ask that they might consider not doing that anymore because you find it grossly offensive

And exclusionary!

I really hope there aren't people who fetishise menopause, it's a grim thought

Well, we know there are menstrual fetishisers. Interestingly, they are rarely people who have ever menstruated or had the potential to menstruate.

Or should I just say: women.

I thought I'd be bereft when my periods stopped - life possibilities lost & all that. But I wasn't - it was such a relief! No more pain, no more worrying about leakage. (A year of panic & sense of being a bit out of control and being more anxious than I had ever been for no reason was another thing, but bearable).

On a scale of 1-10, how likely would it be that any NHS transmen (going through an early menopause due to cross sex hormones) would feel comfortable to attend such a meeting?

So who is this performative for?

For trans men or non-binary employees? I don’t think I’d be as bothered about this tbh.

The word for the people whose bodies do these things is 'women' .
The bodies of people who are men do not .
Some women are shy , very private . Some women are culturally bound to keep bodily functions private or English may be a second or third language . Some women , me included , don't want our sex-based functions to be discussed so publicly and in such crude , inelegant terms .
Also , if I attended a menstruation or menopause workshop and there was a man there - however he was dressed or 'presenting' , I would feel fucking uncomfortable and would leave . I endured enough shame and embarrassment regarding menarche and menstruation from boys at school and from men in my adult life , I certainly wouldn't have wanted to suffer any more through my menopause .
Women need 'women only' spaces for their women's things . Why won't men be kind and respectful and leave us the fuck alone ?

The equality and diversity people will not accept that, as there will be some people who will feel that the word woman should never be attached to the concept of biological sex as this is exclusionary and triggering for them.

However there is nothing to argue with in accepting that everyone has the right to the wording they are comfortable with instead of equality being a hierarchy, and that no one should be labelled in a way they are uncomfortable with or reduced to body parts. Either these concepts apply equally to all or they shouldn't apply to anyone at all.

Women AND .... . covers all bases. For some people, biological sex is how they view, define and prefer to label themselves. For some people, other views, definitions and labels are preferable. Inclusion: we add.

"Well I feel excluded and offended by this wording, which is discriminatory and dehumanising to female people, and borders upon gynephobic in making the word 'woman' for female people a thing too shocking and unpleasant to say. Language and equality should strive for the diversity to include all equally instead of merely choosing which group is the current fashion to exclude and subordinate."

The workshop on prostate health will be advertised to men though.

I would write to who ever sent you the email and say you are deeply uncomfortable about being referred to as a person who menstruates and find it deeply distasteful that women are being referred to by their bodily functions rather than their sex and ask that they might consider not doing that anymore because you find it grossly offensive. The more women who make this an issue the sooner it can stop happening.

OP, I agree with you and others that this language is not acceptable, and I don't like the sometimes suggested addition of 'and people who [mestruate; have a cervix; are pregnant] etc etc' after the word 'woman'.

One solution would be for all invitations, leaflets, posters and so on targeted at females to include this simple one line:

'In this [insert type of publication] we use the word 'woman' to refer to biological sex, not gender identity or gender expression.'

It could be in a small font, but still readable.

Do you think your equality and diversity people would accept that?

How about a strategic comma? So... "this workshop is for women and other people, who menstruate and/or will go through menopause". I really hope there aren't people who fetishise menopause, it's a grim thought.

Several years ago now, a transwoman poster here to earnestly explain to us how they had been through the menopause, and was most sniffy when I declined to validate the experience as authentic.

They had had “six months of hormone hell” due to “too much oestrogen”, and their doctor had told them it was “effectively the menopause”.

My kindness chip failed to function correctly that day, I can tell you. I nearly wrecked my rep as a calm, polite, reasonable poster

Excellent e-mail and, unfortunately, the typical response. Women and their feeling don't matter, we are mere pieces of meat to be dehumanised at will. No wonder that Women's Health Issues within the NHS and medicine generally is in such a parlous and dangerous state.

Who exactly won't these sessions suit if the word women is used? Why are their needs and wishes considered vital enough to override women?

Well done for challenging. Couldn't agree with you more

Well done OP for standing your ground.
They are tangling themselves up in knots of their own making. Idiots.

Why has everything changed? To keep the one or two people happy who might otherwise be offended?

Yup. But those who might be offended are men. Who are the default humans in every situation.

Ugh!

I hate this. Why has everything changed? To keep the one or two people happy who might otherwise be offended?

So they already had comments that women don't like it and they ignored those.

Fucking hell that’s Monty Python levels of absurd.

It makes no sense whatsoever to refer to advice given on the menopause to be offered to “people who menstruate”, given that the key measure of having gone through menopause is the cessation of menstruation. Given that the reason for the workshop is to support women with the practical and emotional difficulties this turbulent time can bring it is the very antithesis of “inclusive” to reduce women to the function that they’re losing, and possibly mourning.

“Hey, person, you’re not menstruating any more, but let me just remind you that you used to, before you stopped being fertile and young! Let me just underscore any sense of loss that you might feel by emphasising that”.

If there are people for whom the word “women” does not feel descriptive, but who are faced with issues around menopause, then the title of the workshop should be sufficient to provide the information they need. If there’s any additional needs there, then they could put a sentence at the end saying to contact the organiser if in doubt.

Please do keep at it. You’re right.

Absolutely ridiculous & very exclusionary to refer to women in this way.

Well done for challenging it Op.

What on earth is wrong with saying that the workshop is for women and others who menstruate and/or will go through menopause?