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Original poster

NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

438 replies

sunshineandhappy · 14/04/2021 14:22

I received a generic email from the well being team at the nhs trust I am employed by inviting me to a managing menopause workshop which was open to 'people who menstruate or people who will go through the menopause'.
This was my reply I was disappointed to see the following phrase ‘those who menstruate or those who will go through the menopause ‘ in the below email. The correct phrase for the target audience should surely include the word women, even if the other phrasing needs to be used as well, as this clumsy phrasing, whilst appearing to be inclusive to a minority, is actually exclusive to the way the vast majority of the target audience for this seminar may feel. I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female. I hope my opinion will be considered in the spirit in which it is meant, as all groups matter, and all relevant individuals should be considered when generic emails are being sent to a large number of staff.'
We will wait to see whether I receive any response

OP posts:
Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 15/04/2021 09:41

Well done for pushing back.

SD1978 · 15/04/2021 09:36

@ASugarr - so the erosion of woman and female is widespread- yet men and male needs a softly softly approach to not offend? Maybe because when men and males find something offensive or non inclusive, they are listened to?

NeedToKnow101 · 15/04/2021 09:33

Every single time the word man is used, correct it to person who ejaculates, people with penises, or people with one or two testicles.

B1rthis · 15/04/2021 09:28

That's like teaching children of one sex about how puberty happens to them.
Bit daft.
Why can't it be education for all?
Especially male GPs who can get slated on here for not really being helpful following a gynae issue.

elgreco · 15/04/2021 09:26

If the word woman can no longer be used presumably that renders transwoman meaningless and we will have to refer to those formally know as tranwomen as people with penises.

HermitsLife · 15/04/2021 09:26

Appin I'm so sorry you went through that. I had a hysterectomy at 40 due to years of gynecological issues that were largely ignored by my GP and I have the response as you to this.

It completely ignores who we are are what we are going through. It would be really nice if these Diversity and Inclusion teams took 5 minutes to talk with women about how we wish to discuss these things.

Appin · 15/04/2021 09:21

I hate it when women are reduced to this phrase 'people who menstruate'. I had a hysterectomy at 36 as a result of cervical cancer, and I don't menstruate.

This phrase highlights my sense of loss and makes me want to cry.

EyesOpening · 15/04/2021 09:20

And by acknowledging that there would be a backlash from men, it acknowledges that the word “men” is not gendered language and is not widely accepted as gendered and defining of females also, otherwise why would anyone need to worry about a backlash?

The term woman isn't sex based language. It is gender. Female maybe however that is still uncomfortable for many. The changes are gradually being made to men however the backlash is going to be way worse so they are taking it step by step.

Don’t you mean ‘people with penises’? Or males?

Just to repeat the inconsistencies here for the people with vaginas and men who missed it

HermitsLife · 15/04/2021 09:16

I have been following this thread since my first comment and it is still niggling me. We are more than just our body parts and our bodily functions and its incredibly reductive and dehumanising to refer to us this way.

Can anyone please explain to me how being called a menstruator is any less offensive than being called a bleeder or a spit arse?

Its fucking rude and totally oblivious to the way many women feel as they go through a hugely disruptive life change.

cupoftea2021 · 15/04/2021 09:16

@sunshineandhappy

This is the reply!

'We know language can be an emotive subject and that gender language in particular has evolved a lot in recent times. We took advice from our Equality, Diversity and Inclusion specialists in relation to what terminology to use that reflected who these sessions were aimed at and had a lot of discussions before settling on this wording.

We appreciate it won’t suit everyone in the same way that saying they were for women won’t suit everyone - as indeed comments from staff reflected that when this was used previously.'

I've asked for my complaint to be referred to the equality diversity and inclusion specialists as I don't feel included by this.

Specialists" I bet they are on a huge income to come up with such bs too. Worlds gone mad
NotBadConsidering · 15/04/2021 09:13

If it was going to be properly inclusive of transmen, it should say:

“Are you going through menopause in your teens or twenties as a result of puberty blockers, testosterone, and the need for a hysterectomy from the intense pain of uterine contractions? You may be interested in our seminar!”

cupoftea2021 · 15/04/2021 09:11

@osbertthesyrianhamster

This nonsense seems to never end.
👌
AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo · 15/04/2021 09:10

We appreciate it won’t suit everyone in the same way that saying they were for women won’t suit everyone

Hmm The word “women” won’t suit everyone going through the menopause? Who else do they think goes through it? And if you’re a woman who identifies as a trans man, can’t you identify yourself out of the menopause? Doesn’t the very fact that you acknowledge you’re going through the menopause cause you to acknowledge you’re a biological woman? Or are they seriously going with “men can go through the menopause too”?

RedDogsBeg · 15/04/2021 09:09

@ASugarr

Okay well transgender men find it offensive. So the best way for it to be put is to refer to 'people who...' And go from there. If it said men and women I imagine there would be more outrage from women so it is a healthy compromise.
Nice one ASugarr putting men before women in your comment making it crystal clear who you think are the default humans, no misogyny here, oh no.

It is not a healthy compromise, Women's Health matters need to place women front and centre, no ifs, buts, or maybes, woman is the default, not men, not people who identify as, women, adult human females to do anything else is excluding, dehumanising and dangerous.

SaturdayRocks · 15/04/2021 09:02

*The term woman isn't sex based language. It is gender. Female maybe however that is still uncomfortable for many. The changes are gradually being made to men however the backlash is going to be way worse so they are taking it step by step.

Don’t you mean ‘people with penises’? Or males?

QuarantineQueen · 15/04/2021 09:01

Let's not pretend this is about making transmen feel included. There's an easy way to do that: 'women and transmen'. None of the transmen I know want to be defined by their female body parts! If anything this language is the worst it could be for transmen, even worse than it is for women.
This is about appeasing a tiny vocal minority of male-bodied transpeople (most transwomen have got far more sense than to think a menopause workshop applies to them and wouldn't give it a second glance) who the workshop is not even meant to be catering for.

FrancesGumm · 15/04/2021 09:00

Men don’t menstruate - only women (and girls approaching womanhood ) do.

For most people woman is a sex term , adult human female.

If you make woman a term where anyone can be a woman if they feel like it then we need a new word for adult human female , so it can be said in one word and not three for ease. Language is there for a reason.

NotBadConsidering · 15/04/2021 08:55

And by acknowledging that there would be a backlash from men, it acknowledges that the word “men” is not gendered language and is not widely accepted as gendered and defining of females also, otherwise why would anyone need to worry about a backlash?

EyesOpening · 15/04/2021 08:53

“Well all women don't have a cervix so that's why the term woman isn't used”
Except it was used
“All women and people with a cervix aged 25 to 64 should be invited by letter.”

www.nhs.uk/conditions/cervical-screening/

m0therofdragons · 15/04/2021 08:53

I really struggle with this as I have to send out messages in my workplace but have the equality lead in my ear a lot. We recently had a staff survey where no one stated they identified as different to their birth sex so I’m using that as evidence to back sticking to normal language or being general “are you experiencing menopause? Come along to a helpful webinar full of tips to support you.”

We recently introduced gender neutral toilets and they wanted to put that on the sign. I pushed back and said “toilet” is all it needs to say!

EyesOpening · 15/04/2021 08:51

The changes are gradually being made to men however the backlash is going to be way worse so they are taking it step by step.
This would indicate to me, another group of people who feel excluded by the language.
A group of people who are either even more unhappy or more vocal.
So again not following the guidelines you yourself posted, that you yourself told us you have to follow

“avoid making any groups of people feel excluded”

service-manual.nhs.uk/service-standard/5-make-sure-everyone-can-use-the-service

Whythesadface · 15/04/2021 08:48

Maybe that is what we need to do, by that, I mean 1000 women book to go to an event that is not necessary for women.

SaturdayRocks · 15/04/2021 08:46

@ASugarr

Okay well transgender men find it offensive. So the best way for it to be put is to refer to 'people who...' And go from there. If it said men and women I imagine there would be more outrage from women so it is a healthy compromise.
So all transmen are happy with being literally defined as someone who menstruates?
ASugarr · 15/04/2021 08:44

@EyesOpening

ASugarr, the guidelines you linked which you say you have to follow, state avoid making any groups of people feel excluded there is a group of people here, stating they feel excluded by phrases which avoid the use of the word “woman”. As evidenced by the NHS’s own website, it shows that phrases such as “All women and people with a cervix” www.nhs.uk/conditions/cervical-screening/ are acceptable. This begs the question, why are you not following the guidelines you yourself linked and you yourself told us you have to follow?
Well all women don't have a cervix so that's why the term woman isn't used.
littleredberries · 15/04/2021 08:43

Read their response. Fuck them. Fuck everyone trying to diminish the presence of WOMEN in this world