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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

438 replies

sunshineandhappy · 14/04/2021 14:22

I received a generic email from the well being team at the nhs trust I am employed by inviting me to a managing menopause workshop which was open to 'people who menstruate or people who will go through the menopause'.
This was my reply I was disappointed to see the following phrase ‘those who menstruate or those who will go through the menopause ‘ in the below email. The correct phrase for the target audience should surely include the word women, even if the other phrasing needs to be used as well, as this clumsy phrasing, whilst appearing to be inclusive to a minority, is actually exclusive to the way the vast majority of the target audience for this seminar may feel. I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female. I hope my opinion will be considered in the spirit in which it is meant, as all groups matter, and all relevant individuals should be considered when generic emails are being sent to a large number of staff.'
We will wait to see whether I receive any response

OP posts:
ConfusedAdultFemale · 15/04/2021 10:51

Ah, because it’s not just females that menstruate or go through menopause right? Right? No?

sashagabadon · 15/04/2021 10:51

I would complain about that too

Lifeaintalwaysempty · 15/04/2021 10:50

How mad has the world gone that we have a word that neatly defines all those ‘people who experience periods and/or will go through the menopause’ but we are not allowed to use it.
Apologies for feeding trolling, will not facilitate any further derailment!

Waitwhat23 · 15/04/2021 10:49

@transbadger I agree with you about calling every instance out - the more we just let things slide, the argument in the future for this language will be that its been in place for ages and 'no-one has complained'.

I also wonder what would happen if, everytime someone uses the word man, women ask 'do you mean prostate owner?' (or similar) to highlight the disparity.

transbadger · 15/04/2021 10:48

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BobBobBobbin · 15/04/2021 10:45

Could they just have said “open to anyone who expects to go through the menopause in the future” and avoided tying themselves in knots?

Lifeaintalwaysempty · 15/04/2021 10:44

@ASugarr

Okay well transgender men find it offensive. So the best way for it to be put is to refer to 'people who...' And go from there. If it said men and women I imagine there would be more outrage from women so it is a healthy compromise.
Yet I and many many women find ‘people who menstruate’ offensive- so exactly why is that the best way to go? What would be wrong with a compromise in language so that both women and transgender men are recognised for who they are? Well- Transgender women would feel excluded as they consider themselves women. Be honest and admit this is not to do with transgender men it is to do with including transgender women in the category of ‘women’ which means that term can’t be used in conjunction with periods. Because they don’t have them. Because they have male anatomy. This is all about transgender women, not women or transgender men. Biological males still at the centre of everything, even period workshops.
Waitwhat23 · 15/04/2021 10:43

@sunshineandhappy yes, please do keep us updated. I would be very interested to hear what their response to your question about the terminology they use/intend to use for men. If they are not going down the same road (i.e people who have a prostate or similar), then I think they will really have to be pressed by you/your complaints system to give a coherent answer as to why that is.

StillAFemale · 15/04/2021 10:38

@Diverze

What it boils down to, is, who is supposed to be the audience? If you are talking about natural menopause at age 50, you are not including transwomen in that audience. So it's ok to say "women, and others who are experiencing natural cessation of periods". If it's a transhealth session for transmen, it's not for people who think of themselves as women, so say "workshop for transmen and non binary people". Why are we tying ourselves in knots?
If you use the term ‘women, and others who are experiencing natural cessation of periods’ it excludes women who have had hysterectomies as that is not a natural cessation of periods.

The most inclusive term is ‘women’

transbadger · 15/04/2021 10:35

@EyesOpening

Don’t forget OP, as I mentioned upthread, the NHS itself uses phrases such as “women and people with a cervix” and says to avoid making any groups of people feel excluded under its post Make sure everyone can use the service

Call them out on their own guidelines. This stuff sneaks through because of a few well meaning/ignorant/ideologically minded people. We need to draw attention to it. Again. And again. And again.

Until it stops.

🦡🌈🤍

EyesOpening · 15/04/2021 10:31

Don’t forget OP, as I mentioned upthread, the NHS itself uses phrases such as “women and people with a cervix”
and says to avoid making any groups of people feel excluded
under its post
Make sure everyone can use the service

transbadger · 15/04/2021 10:30

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Erkrie · 15/04/2021 10:26

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Sophoclesthefox · 15/04/2021 10:26

appin, hermitslife, needchoos, solidarity fistbump to you.

We matter. Our feelings matter. It’s OK to stand up for them

Flowers
SaturdayRocks · 15/04/2021 10:20

And back to my question....

Do all transmen want to be literally defined by their uterus-ownership, and the fact that it sheds its lining once a month?

MummBraTheEverLeaking · 15/04/2021 10:18

The only way some people see "held accountable" is being removed. Erased. Not allowed an opinion. We don't want people seeing that and realising women aren't happy after all. Everything's fine. Move along.

'Held accountable' or phrases like 'consequence culture' is only used to make the people using it to erase women's voices sound more self righteous. Doesn't work on me sorry.

Every thread now it seems there's the post "woman doesn't mean what you think", muddying the waters, steering the conversation away, baiting it into an argument until MNHQ pulls the plug. You know exactly what you're doing.

I'll no longer be engaging with that.

transbadger · 15/04/2021 10:18

@BoreOfWhabylon

Good to hear from someone who actually wrote literature for the NHS for a living and knows what they are talking about.

🦡🌈🤍

ASugarr · 15/04/2021 10:01

@SaturdayRocks

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
I asked for people who are insulting to be held accountable, not for threads to be deleted.
bakingdemon · 15/04/2021 09:56

Well done you! Does the Trust have a governing body you could potentially take this to if you want to keep escalating it? I am all for escalating these issues up and up and up. It's time women showed that we won't put up with this crap any more

SaturdayRocks · 15/04/2021 09:55

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DaisiesandButtercups · 15/04/2021 09:52

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ShrinkingViolet9 · 15/04/2021 09:44

@sunshineandhappy

This is the reply!

'We know language can be an emotive subject and that gender language in particular has evolved a lot in recent times. We took advice from our Equality, Diversity and Inclusion specialists in relation to what terminology to use that reflected who these sessions were aimed at and had a lot of discussions before settling on this wording.

We appreciate it won’t suit everyone in the same way that saying they were for women won’t suit everyone - as indeed comments from staff reflected that when this was used previously.'

I've asked for my complaint to be referred to the equality diversity and inclusion specialists as I don't feel included by this.

Good for you, sunshineandhappy. Keep us updated on responses.

World's gone bloody mad.

NeedChoos · 15/04/2021 09:44

Appin - me too. I find it very difficult and very sad.

NeedChoos · 15/04/2021 09:42

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EyesOpening · 15/04/2021 09:42

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