NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

Because they may not suit all.

How does 'women AND TM and NB people (and any other labels that may be wanted)' not suit all?

Surely it's the compromise that does suit all.

Interesting too, the view that women who are unhappy about their personal language and identity being rejected is a necessary service they should provide out of social responsibility to others.

But there's no reciprocal responsibility to women from those others being cared for.

And no reciprocation of values: some people's choices and feelings matter and other people need to shut up, suffer and put others first, is this right?

The fundamental inequality of this is sexist and ridiculous.

....Or, that it says something like "perimenopausal or menopausal women, transmen and non binary females"?

As I said before, I really find it hard to believe that a transman would be happier to be called a "person who menstruates" than be referred to as a transman specifically, if the workshop is relevant for them (and as I also said, not convinced that a standard menopause workshop will meet the specific needs of most transmen).

However it's either you are unhappy that the word woman isn't included, or trans men and non binary people don't get this education.

How does 'women AND transmen and non binary people' not work?

Why is it absolutely essential in your view that women suffer being unhappy before trans and non binary people can be catered for?

Only women go through the menopause

Men whatever clothes they are wearing, surgery they’ve had, however long their hair or whatever their name is do not go through the menopause based on the fact that they do not have female biology

TM have female biology & will go through the menopause. Sadly depending on what medication they’ve taken, some will go through it at a very young age

Badass Badger award for standing up to this @sunshineandhappy

🏆

🦡🌈🤍

Even at my university they manage to use the word woman when advertising and running these workshops.

The time has come where it has to be faced:

Is it necessary to prove that you have dehumanised, erased and subordinated/removed things from female humans in order to be seen as sufficiently pro trans?

Because increasingly equality isn't what is being sought for. It's about a hierarchy and making very clear who matters and who all these nice words don't apply to. And that isn't inclusion or equality or promoting good feeling between groups or diversity, it's just quite straight forward discrimination against female people on the grounds of it being 'positive discrimination'.

Thank you so much for everyone's support sometimes I feel like I'm on my own with feeling so strongly about this type of wording, it's good to know I'm not, which gives me the courage to challenge it

You're not alone @sunshineandhappy Thank you for protesting against the dehumanising of women.

The bit I don't get is what there is to feel upset by.

If a workshop is advertised for genderqueer people to explore notions of personhood or somesuch, I don't take offence at being excluded. I am not the target market.

If a workshop is advertised for men who have had prostate cancer, I walk on by knowing it isn't for me.

If a workshop is advertised for women to discuss issues relating to surviving domestic abuse, I thank my lucky stars that that workshop isn't appropriate or relevant for me to attend.

I don't get offended that things are offered to classes of people that don't include me.

I find it really hard to believe that 99.9 percent of transwomen would see a workshop advertising advice around the menopause to "women" and feel like it's a personal insult to them. I suspect this is much more an issue in the minds of the very "right on" than to most transpeople, the majority of whom are just trying to live their life in peace and as they feel they need.

You don't take away my descriptor because someone else doesn't like it being applied to them.

This a million times. No-one and I mean no-one will refer to me as a person who...., I do not consent to being dehumanised, disregarded, dismissed and insulted.

Totally! OhDear2200.
That is a really good point. If I can understand when something is or isn’t for me. Other parties should be ‘kind’ and appreciative that not everything is about them...sometimes.

I’m asking for the same consideration as other groups of people. Address me using the correct description, the description I identify with, that is comfortable for me.

[quote OhDear2200]@sunshineandhappy

Thank you! As a woman who is entering this stage in her life I thank you for being brave enough to voice your concerns.

I want to be referred to as a woman. I don’t give a toss how others are referred to within literature, as I have the capacity to read and understand that it is being inclusive by including others who don’t identify as women but who menstruate. And because I have that capacity I see no reason why the word woman should not be used.[/quote]

Yes.

You don't take away my descriptor because someone else doesn't like it being applied to them.

As someone said above, keep on topic of the thread. Don’t let this one get deleted.

@sunshineandhappy

Thank you! As a woman who is entering this stage in her life I thank you for being brave enough to voice your concerns.

I want to be referred to as a woman. I don’t give a toss how others are referred to within literature, as I have the capacity to read and understand that it is being inclusive by including others who don’t identify as women but who menstruate. And because I have that capacity I see no reason why the word woman should not be used.

Thank you for raising this @sunshineandhappy. Please keep us updated.

Thats a really good question SaturdayRocks and given the latest language used something I have wondered about too.

Well done for calling out this nonsense. They get away with it because women who object don’t make their voices heard, and the very vocal but tiny minority get their way

StillAFemale:

In my example, in my opinion, Women who have had a hysterectomy are covered by "women". It's women and....