NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

This has nothing to do with including trans men (and anyone NB) and everything to do with TWAW.

Given a recent thread about how trans women can have periods it just gets very confusing.

(I also agree that using people who menstrate is dehumanising)

But using the term 'people' includes all. It isn't excluding half.

I actually think we might be about to get somewhere @ASugarr

You cannot exclude half the human population by erasing their name as a class from language. You are so keen not to make certain groups of people feel excluded. Women should also not be excluded. You're right- a conundrum.

And for a couple of weeks now since you joined this forum, woman after woman after woman have been saying that this sort of thing excludes us.

What do we do about it? What do you think would be a good way forward that doesn't exclude women, for whom these types of sessions/clinics etc are for?

Have a think about everything everyone has told you on here for the past couple of weeks. Genuinely listen. Maybe you have a good idea that could seriously bridge the divide.

For all my previous caustic responses, I am genuinely asking you know. What do you propose is done about this to make everyone feel included, safe, valued, and to allow those who need it the most to get the information pertinent to them.

🦡🌈🤍

As many others have said i think

‘Women, transmen and non binary people’ is a good compromise

Or ‘women and people with a cervix’

Anything else isn’t a compromise

The idea that woman should not be named in a workshop about periods because it hurts the feeling of men is just breathtaking. Where is the common sense.

Exactly NeverDrop. I think its rather telling that people who handwave the objections of boring old middle aged women tend not to be people anywhere near menopause and who for example arent having to deal with vaginal atrophy so severe that even the smallest dilator is painful to get in, or the shrinking and disapperance of their labia and clitoris.

odd how the kindness and inclusion calls only go one way....

It isn't really acceptable socially to discuss the condition of one's vaginal walls over the dinner table or with one's mother in law, after all - if you add into that other concerns, domestic abuse for example, particularly non consensual sex whilst experiencing atrophy, it really helps for the women there to not feel awkward or observed - or that they are speaking and acting inappropriately around males. Not that it would be discussed directly, but addressing the symptom, a possible treatment and clarifying that there is a medical cause and risk involved could be the information somebody needs to make a disclosure. You certainly don't want a man chipping in with their opinions on that.

Same way I don't think I should be present in a workshop for men (however they identify) with prostate issues; many in the age group concerned will not want to be talking about erectile dysfunction around women. Not my place and I could be preventing somebody with a genuine concern from being able to speak out.

Okay and the other way round excludeds and insults people too, so what's the solution?

[quote ConfusedAdultFemale]@Asugar it’s shouldn’t be including “all types” of people. It’s specifically for those with female biology, in this instant “women and transmen” would be all that was needed. Everyone that is female knows they’re female, whether or not they’ve got a male gender. There’s no need to be inclusive of transwomen or men in the language used because neither of those go through menopause.[/quote]
And non binary people. People is a word that encompasses them all.

Instance*

@Asugar it’s shouldn’t be including “all types” of people. It’s specifically for those with female biology, in this instant “women and transmen” would be all that was needed. Everyone that is female knows they’re female, whether or not they’ve got a male gender. There’s no need to be inclusive of transwomen or men in the language used because neither of those go through menopause.

Just noticed the changes I linked it says
This new recommendation will mean changes to the current rules for men who have sex with men as well as other specific sexual behaviours that currently require people to wait for a period of time (deferral) before being allowed to donate blood in England.

This change will not come into effect until summer 2021 and the deferral periods are still in place. We are working on updating our processes to reflect the new recommendations.

Don't feel bad Gasp

They'd just be tourists.

Fair enough to offer training for managers of both sexes around the health issues which women may encounter going through menopause, and post-menopause.

But to have men i the room in a workshop for women encountering menopause? No way.

Also, it appears that use of cross-sex hormones does alter some lab values
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30518663/
Conclusions: Changes occur in several common laboratory parameters for patients on HT. Some laboratory values changed to match the gender identity, whereas others remained unchanged or were intermediate from the baseline values. These findings will help guide interpretation of laboratory test results in transgender patients taking HT.

NB HT = Hormone Therapy, not HRT

Thanks, Bore. (I always feel bad saying that ). I hope they get overhauled pdq as I was amazed by what I was reading. Clear as mud.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g the page you linked to has an update www.blood.co.uk/news-and-campaigns/news-and-statements/fair-steering-group/ which clarifies and streamlines things. It's also worth reading the Executive Summary.

It looks to me as if the sections you have highlighted in the original haven't yet been updated.

I would not want males at a menopause workshop. What's the purpose?

Me three. I don’t want to discuss my menopause issues with biological men in the room

Me too. I've seen reports on MN of men attending breastfeeding support groups. I'd have stopped going.

As a perimenopausal woman I'd be very keen not to discuss some of my symptoms with men in the room. Is that ok nowadays? Or must there be no boundaries whatsoever?

Would it really matter if a non-menstruator turned up at the menopause workshop anyway? Maybe they want to support the menstruators in their lives.

Well, you know, when I was peri-menopausal, I wouldn't have minded if a woman who'd experienced menopause* came to talk, and I could ask about stuff. But if a man (sex, not gender) of any sort were there, I just wouldn't talk; I wouldn't feel comfortable.

Why should men be tourists in women's lives?

• Note: a woman who'd been through a significant life experience, not a "non-menstruator"