Jameela Jamil just tweeted this....

I was a teenage girl in the 90s and this was never s thing. No-one knew what they were. She's thinking of the pill, loads of girls including myself were on it for heavy periods GPs handed them out like sweets.

I actually knew of one girl who I believe, looking back, was on puberty blockers. This was late 80s, she was the year below me at primary school and had noticeable full breasts by about the middle of Year 4. I asked my mum about it and I was told that the girl had "special medicine from the doctors" to stop her from developing until she was older. Looking back now, I assume she was on blockers for precocious puberty. She went to a different secondary so I assume she stopped taking them at some point. Other than that one girl with very early puberty, I knew of no one who had puberty blockers, and definitely not for heavy periods. Thats just nonsense.

But that involves being prepared to read things you don't necessarily agree with or like.

And therein lies the catch. When you have passed over your own ability to critically think about a topic to those you view as opinion leaders, even if they have absolutely no expertise in the topic at all, you then rely on their interpretation.

We have all seen the feeds with 'I have watched/read this so you don't have to subject yourself to harm/literal violence/actually having to think for yourself'. We have seen posters link so called opinion leaders links and thought, who in their right mind thinks that this person, with this background, is a thought leader in this topic?

I mean, I have a laugh every time one poster keeps linking to a blog as an appeal to authority. A blog by a person who was deeply involved in the sexual harassment of a woman on twitter earlier in the year, AND around IWD was involved in a twitter exchange demeaning women's toilet habits - those of hovering and the noise of women urinating. Seriously, that this person is being linked as an expert on women, feminism and such, is quite astonishing. But, that same poster has linked to that blog across numerous threads and never wavers in their support of their opinion.

It does seem constant though. The outsourcing of critical thinking and analysis. The unevidenced, or falsely evidenced claims. The refusal to acknowledge that a supposed thought leader could possibly be capable of only a purely biased view point and that you have been taken for a ride in wholeheartedly believing them, instead using them merely as a thought provoker.

@toffeebutterpopcorn

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It's astonishing isn't it. They don't even seem to work in the way campaigners claim they do - to make young people feel better about themselves

What I dont understand is, that despite being given the same timeframe and the same opportunity as everyone else involved to produce the evidence, to produce the results, add any info they feel is necessary to contribute to the cases fir the treatment they are advocating for, it doest materialise or isn't sufficient. Amd thee are organisations with government funding and alot of online support. But there's no questioning of why. No anger or skepticism directed at them for being unable or unwilling to put together a case. Its some how all down to bigots.

Just reading the reies on Twitter...she should just admit she was wrong and confused PB and the contraceptive pill.

She'll be looking at the engagement, at the 1K retweets and 10K likes, and be thinking that today has been one of her more successful days. Who gives a shit about spreading medical misinformation when you're getting that level of attention?

Was there som evidence of increased suicidal ideation in some groups?

But yet we have children who even the Tavistock have shown have no improvement in their mental health after being given blockers amd the answer seems to be to make sure no one can say anything negative as opposed to looking at what else can be done that might help.

It's astonishing isn't it. They don't even seem to work in the way campaigners claim they do - to make young people feel better about themselves.

What really bothers me about all this virtue signalling is that some celebs (like Jameela) will ignore MEDICAL EVIDENCE in order to be seen as woke and supportive to certain sections of society, such as trans. It completely undermines the cause in my opinion because blatant disregard of said medical evidence shows a real recklessness and gung-ho attitude, which you cannot have when talking about such things.

Verygood point! Just when I think I've wrapped my head around the lunacy of it all, someone says something else to make you think "Yes! Why the fuck is that the case?"

We also seem to very often run in to the problem of the "right source"

There are many papers on here that are under constant criticism. That's why of we read a story we also perhaps view alternate stories and through picking apart what we know to be the journalists agenda or emphasis we can usually eventually piece together the story. But that involves being prepared to read things you don't necessarily agree with or like. We do however know that not everyone is wrong about everything all the time. I dont like trump however I'm.not going to argue the sky is green just because he said it was blue. You sometimes have to detach what's being said from who's saying it. Because if you are holding out for the perfect paper at the perfect time written by the perfect journalist on a.midnight on the 29tg if Feb at a full.moon and Venus in mercury you are going to have a very long wait and be very behind in developments.

@Helleofabore and @alkanet

It must be very difficult to admit that you have found a crack in what you thought were rock solid foundations in the home you have sunk your entire self into.

For anyone who might be interested I recommend watching Joe Rogan interviewing Megan Phelps-Roper, a young woman who left the infamous Westborough Baptist Church.

She explains the lightbulb moment that led to her leaving the church. Amazingly it was an exchange on Twitter with a man (who later became her husband) that led her to denouncing the church. She now travels the world speaking about her experiences and drawing parallels to cult group-think and current no-platforming and censor culture.

Really worth a watch.

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Her post is scarily misinformed.
She's talking gobbledegook.

@Whatwouldscullydo

If adults can transition without any form if alterations of their bodies or appearance then why is it imperative that all these children have access to puberty blockers.

Very good point! Just when I think I've wrapped my head around the lunacy of it all, someone says something else to make you think "Yes! Why the fuck is that the case?"

Interesting fact-check story on JJ -

https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE4MDkzODgzODY0MDgzNjAz?storymediaa_id=2202800871422944895&igshid=1qqi77ic26eqs

It was a live demonstration of how prejudice for a forum, because of what you have given the controls of your own judgement to others, completely clouds judgement

I think I remember that thread.

Ironically if you truly believed something youd surely be happy to allow the discussion, allow all aspects to be researched and considered knowing it will come back as being the right thing.

But yet we have children who even the Tavistock have shown have no improvement in their mental health after being given blockers amd the answer seems to be to make sure no one can say anything negative as opposed to looking at what else can be done that might help.

Its certainly not beneficial to anyone to be waiting months on ridiculously long waiting lists behind children who might not even need to be there.

If adults can transition without any form if alterations of their bodies or appearance then why is it imperative that all these children have access to puberty blockers.

One would assume at the end of the day that really we are all on the same side. We all want well researched, safe, well communicated treatment that has plenty of research, follow up and documented benefits etc

I remember almost an entire thread where a well entrenched poster could not see that no one was actually disagreeing with them on that point. Yet, the poster was oblivious to this as they were so deep in their prejudice about who the posters on MN were they really couldn't see.

It was a live demonstration of how prejudice for a forum, because of what you have given the controls of your own judgement to others, completely clouds judgement.

Hellofabore
You are not allowed nuanced thinking, only complete observance of the beliefs of the group.

I was raised in a strict religious family and it took years to de- programme myself. The parallels between some religious groups and this ideology are frightening. The MO is identical, only reading approved literatures, fierce condemnation of apostates, refusal to hear contrary views. Makes me uneasy to say the least.

It must be very difficult to admit that you have found a crack in what you thought were rock solid foundations in the home you have sunk your entire self into

One would assume at the end of the day that really we are all on the same side. We all want well researched, safe, well communicated treatment that has plenty of research, follow up and documented benefits etc

I mean with many illnesses/conditions there are usually options aren't there ? I mean you do what's best for the individual patients based on the pros and cons of these options. You don't continue to prescribe treatments that are causing great harm.just because it uspets others who possibly never even took it.

Nothing we give or don't give kids now is an attack on anyone else's choices. It's about the patients. And those patients deserve the truth about what they are taking.

Have any of her classmates ever come forward with comments? I can’t imagine she became a terrible attention seemed recently...

I also find it strange how you cant disagree with a single aspect if there's even a remote connection.

I often think this when I read some of these posts on MN from posters known to have come from Twitter. I look at it that some people are so heavily invested in supporting this movement, to the degree that it does come across as an ideological belief, that they cannot show any acknowledgement that they support even the aspects that are harmful.

When you are relying on affirmation from people on the internet, or even specifically from a social media platform, you cannot acknowledge when you may have been mistaken. You are not allowed nuanced thinking, only complete observance of the beliefs of the group.

We have heard this from detransitioners and transitioners alike. We have seen the 'cancel culture' come for allies. It must be very difficult to admit that you have found a crack in what you thought were rock solid foundations in the home you have sunk your entire self into.

What I find appalling is the deliberate twisting and obfuscation that they deliberately employ, let alone the contradictions which are legion

I also find it strange how you cant disagree with a single aspect if there's even a remote connection.

If you took anything else you'd find varying degrees of investment. Take say animal.rights and vegetarianism etc you have a huge wide range of views ranging from those who eat small amounts of ethically produced meat right through to the militant vegans who don't even wear make up etc

There is of course lots people will disagree on but also alot of points each party will be able to understand even if they disagree.

Many of those who are pro life will say that they don't wish to ban abortion in all medical reason cases.

But this, you seem to have be able to have zero middle ground even when you have been shown cases of something clearly doing more harm.than good.

She's being thick or lying. Sadly she is afflicted with both so who knows on this occasion

The bollocks is strong with this one