Skirt length responses

11 isn’t too young to have the male gaze discussion with daughters- or sons. The founder of Our Streets Now was prompted to act because of street harassment of her 11 year old sister.

Is she oblivious at 12? I wasn't having conversations with my mum about it but by 12 I was getting men in white vans honk me on the way to school, all the girls at school were rolling up our skirts and then being told to lengthen them again by the teachers. It would be lovely to think that girls aren't concerned with male gaze from such a young age, but I'm not sure that's where we are.

Personally I'd be honest, some people think that girls and young women should dress in a certain way because they worry about what others think about them.

Contrary to our reputation on Twitter most mumsnet feminists are quite happy for people to practice religion as they see fit.

Quite a lot of us are left wing hippies (at heart) too.

No concern about trouser length above the ankle.

That would have to be pretty high to expose anything!
Plenty of schools requre that boys wear shorts. It seems pretty old fashioned.

Because that's what her family say.

Now, what cereal are you having for breakfast?

I think an honest discussion about why people are obsessed with the length of girls skirts is appropriate for a child of secondary age.

My daughter's school have started measuring the girls skirts to ensure they are the regulation 2 inches or less above the knee. No concern about trouser length above the ankle. It has rightly sparked quite a debate.

Reality is we are still obsessed about girls dress and how appropriate or modest it is, largely because of male reactions to it.

Perhaps talk about fashion as well. I remember when long skirts were in fashion. Why does it look odd - because everyone else is conforming to a fashion. Talk about pressures to conform and free choice.

Could you not keep it simple and say that different women and girls like wearing different things, and some of them might have religious reasons or personal beliefs to?

[quote Newq]@Tibtom I explain headscarves by being an old fashioned hygiene thing to eg prevent spread of lice. I wear one myself to stop pollen getting in my hair when gardening. They just still seem to be popular and why not - they can be practical.[/quote]
What sort of headscarves do you mean?

If this is about religion, then you need to tell your dd that.

Some people believe that you should dress a certain way and wear certain things because of their religion. You can give an exmaple like the Sikh turban and bangle too.

If this is not about religion, it seems odd that an 11 yearold is not allowed to wear skirts above the knee. But I would say something like - well maybe she doesn't want people to see her knickers when she is sitting cross legged.

You seem to be twisted round in circles to say/not say the right thing.

What a weird thread. What is the reason, and who is making the rules? A lot of people are assuming, but OP hasn't confirmed.

I'm not assuming the girl is from a religious background. Just responding to the OP's answer.

A 12 year old girl is plenty old enough to be told about differences in outlook and expectations and the reasons behind them.

Why is everyone assuming religion is at play and the girl is a Muslim? Have I missed something?

I'd bring in the historical perspective -it used to be scandalous to see a woman's ankle, these things vary between cultures and over time, bringing out the absurdity and patriarchal elements.

[quote Newq]@Tibtom I explain headscarves by being an old fashioned hygiene thing to eg prevent spread of lice. I wear one myself to stop pollen getting in my hair when gardening. They just still seem to be popular and why not - they can be practical.[/quote]
That seems a bit random when you know that Tibtom is talking about religious reasons. What's wrong with saying it's for religious reasons and families, cultures etc have different viewpoints?

[quote Newq]@Tibtom I explain headscarves by being an old fashioned hygiene thing to eg prevent spread of lice. I wear one myself to stop pollen getting in my hair when gardening. They just still seem to be popular and why not - they can be practical.[/quote]
That's one of the most bizarre posts I've seen.

Dd12 knows a girl age 11 whose skirts have to fall below the knee. She found this odd.

It would be great if you could confirm why this girls skirts "have" to fall below the knee. Most answers are presuming religion, is that it?

My dds knows about different religions and why people may dress differently for religious reasons. Eg turban. Does your dd know why the friend has to have her skirt below her knees? I'd start there.

Even M&S have a section for 'modest clothes' now. Dressing modestly isn't something you are going to be able to hide her from.

I agree with @Doona that different people have different perspectives on what's appropriate to wear. You will no doubt have your own line in the sand with your own dd. You think skirts above the knee are fine. You may think those denim shorts so short you can see the pockets are not fine for your dd. I don't mind my teenagers wearing really short shorts. However I stopped one (14) from wearing a pleated skirt and fishnets on the Comic Relief free dress day as she looked like a paedophiles dream.

I don’t understand why this is an issue. I had a pretty sheltered upbringing in a very white majority area, but in years 6 and 7 I had a friend who was a Muslim and I certainly understood that she wore a headscarf because she was a different religion from me, and her older sister wore trousers under her skirt for the same reason. Kids are good at understanding that different cultures behave differently. If I’d questioned further (which I’m sure I didn’t, any more that I’d question why French people speak French when I spoke English) an explanation that people who follow certain religions like to have their bodies covered when they’re out in public because they feel that they only want to be uncovered to their close family, would have sufficed.

Surely below the knee is the school regulation length anyway so maybe you can suggest her family are a stickler for the rules! It was when I went to school. My parents bought my skirts so big I had to roll them up about 17 times to get them sufficiently short that I was breaking the rules !!

Just say different families have different rules about clothes.

Probably you wouldn't let yours go down the supermarket in a halterneck leopardskin bikini. Why not? Just culture and expectations.

Who is making the rule for the 11 year old? Is it school uniform/school rule? Or parents? Or religion?
Surely just explaining the circumstances around whichever reason isn’t difficult - especially as it doesn’t apply to your child as she has different rules. I think 12 is old enough to understand that different rules can apply to different people/circumstances.

According to who? The wearer of the skirt or some external person because my explanation would be very different depending on the reason for the skirt length requirement.

I think you might be going to far with what you see as trying to protect her.

She is twelve so surely she will have looked at other religions in school. I don't think associating headscarf wearing with lice is particularly helpful.