Well, that's us told

It seemed to me that was exactly what was happening on Mumsnet: some of these newly “gender critical” Mumsnetters were relatively privileged women who had never felt marginalized until they gave birth and came to feel isolated in their nuclear households and (rightfully!) outraged at the lack of support for mothers in the U.K. They turned to Mumsnet for solidarity, and somehow became fixated on trans women in the process

I'd say most of the women who post on FWR are long time political activists of one sort or other. Certainly not all white, heterosexual and middle class either.

In fact it is laughable.....earlier on we were berated for being middle aged......and now we're first time mothers.

I don't mind being called a TRF, but smug*? ODFOD.

I read thread after thread, I noticed that many of the posters wrote about feeling newly disenfranchised and isolated after giving birth for the first time; cast out of a society in which they had previously enjoyed power by virtue of their relative wealth and education. Through organising around this “taboo” issue (we’ll get to that later) they were experiencing solidarity and a sense of purpose that had been missing in their postnatal lives

I think she's been looking somewhere else...certainly don't recognise any of this.

Also, next doors dog is far more likely to eat one of the kids than the begonias.

I don't think I am the kind of middle-class Mummy she imagines me to be...

I am a boogie try-hard and planted begonias which all died in the frost because I could t be arsed to bring them in.

I'm pissed off some of you have a MN feminism badge .

I really tried to read that article. The writer has a very jaunty way of saying not a lot, via many words. In that respect, it was fascinating.

The problem comes when one side is about reasoned debate and the other side is talking about feelings. You cannot reason with feelings.

I agree. But it also doesn't move them when you talk about feelings. Because women's feelings don't count.

I firmly believe that there should have been a culture of discussion from the start on how to equitably marry the two sets of rights of both women and trans people and a reasoned debate on how to deal with any conflicting issues.

That would have been the adult thing to do, yes. The problem comes when one side is about reasoned debate and the other side is talking about feelings. You cannot reason with feelings.

Still, I think it's time for Feminism Chat to adopt Millwall FC fans' famous slogan: "No one likes us, we don't care."

What was particularly amusing was when Milwall FC caved to TRA pressure and cancelled Venice Allan's meeting, leading to it being held in the HoC instead. It was said that MN had "more balls than Millwall". Long may that continue.

I firmly believe that there should have been a culture of discussion from the start on how to equitably marry the two sets of rights of both women and trans people and a reasoned debate on how to deal with any conflicting issues. Women would have campaigned, would have fundraised, would have marched. We've got experience in this, as mentioned by pp (public toilets for women to get rid of the urinary leash for example).

However, the conversation started from a point of 'no debate', 'no platforming' and 'acceptance without question'. Any attempt to discuss any issues has been met with doxxing, rape threats, death threats, bullying out of employment. Even on here, the FWR board is constantly monitored and anything which is 'wrongspeak' is reported. I can't imagine there are many women from here who are going onto websites and message boards which have a pro trans slant and trying to police their language.

The claims that feminism is worrying, violent and aggressive is odd given that the threats of corrective rape for example are not coming from the GC side.

A quick google suggests that 'bougie' is derived from 'bourgeois' & implies that one is aspirational.

Are begonias aspirational? 🧐

This is feminism - you may hate us - but what you call 'transphobia' will be written in to history books as another fight against men who wish to abolish women's rights.

Absolutely. As with all these articles, there's a lot of handwringing and feigned horror about Terfs, transphobia, etc, but no attempt to engage with the arguments. It talks about stuff being "debunked" when it hasn't been (witness the number of attacks by trans women on women in women's toilets and other women's spaces, for example). As usual, the main tactic is to misrepresent our argument (pretending that we think women are defined by our biology) and discredit us by claiming that if we share any commonality with the American right, then we must be wrong.

Still, I think it's time for Feminism Chat to adopt Millwall FC fans' famous slogan: "No one likes us, we don't care."

collection of message boards I’d previously turned to for advice on how to descale my dishwasher and associated with smug, bougie mums comparing high-end strollers and complaining about the neighbor’s dog eating their begonias

Good thing she didn't ask me. I don't even have a dishwasher.

Uses bigger words than most articles I've read written by TRAs.

I'm assuming that the journalist is reading this. So, to you; I've thought a lot about why Britain is seen as being T*RF Island. I think it is because feminism has always been more organised than other countries and historically we have achieved so much more than other countries. Think maternity rights, abortion rights - Australia and the US where I have both lived are so so far behind in these areas. Think Mums returning to work after having a baby - our rights to request flexible working are assumed and it is the employer who has to provide a case as to why it is not acceptable. Think women's toilets - the first in the world to win these was England (and yes, men and some women hated us for this too). Think the right to vote - which country won this first?

This is feminism - you may hate us - but what you call 'transphobia' will be written in to history books as another fight against men who wish to abolish women's rights.

From the article: "I was baffled to learn these feminists were finding each other on Mumsnet, a collection of message boards I’d previously turned to for advice on how to descale my dishwasher and associated with smug, bougie mums comparing high-end strollers and complaining about the neighbor’s dog eating their begonias. How wrong I was to underestimate Mumsnet."

Well, one sentence in there is correct.

Newstatesman
Glosswitch
10 MAY 2018
'The demonisation of Mumsnet is just the latest incarnation of witch-hunting
Naturally, it frightens people to think of what a group of mothers might actually demand.'
(extract)
“The deliberate withdrawal of women from men has almost always been seen as a potentially dangerous or hostile act, a conspiracy, a subversion, a needless and grotesque thing.” Thus wrote Adrienne Rich in 1976’s Of Woman Born, her seminal exploration of the politics of motherhood. From the workers gossiping in the spinning circle to old wives passing down knowledge of contraception and abortion, women gathered in isolation have long been considered untrustworthy. What might they be saying? What could they be plotting? And how, above all, might they be controlled?

It’s a problem that’s never gone away, though the context has changed. Anxiety over women’s speech – fuelling violent backlash in the form of witch trials and scold’s bridles – arose at a time when, to quote Marina Warner, “women dominated the webs of information and power; the neighbourhood, the village, the well, the washing place, the shops, the stalls, the street were their arena of influence, not only the household”. (continues)

I bloody love Mumsnet (even if Mumsnet users haven’t always loved me). Whether you grasp the politics behind it or not, its very existence as a modern-day spinning circle/witches’ coven reminds us of female resistance to marginalisation and of the fear this provokes in others.

Like earlier attitudes towards gossips and hags, today’s attitudes towards Mumsnet mothers are a measure of how all mothers – and by extension all women – are perceived. By that, I don’t mean all women are Mumsnet mummies at heart, but that responses to those women provide a measure of what all women can get away with. (continues)

And yet, mean or otherwise, unless one takes into account the historical fear and demonisation of women communicating without supervision, it is frankly bizarre to see activists appointing themselves monitors of Mumsnet conversations on the relationship between sex and gender. It is both disproportionate and a distraction from meaningful work to dismantle stereotypes.

The political engagement of mothers and older women matters. Naturally it frightens people to think of what these highly-exploited groups might actually demand – and of the services they might stop providing – if a sufficient level of organisation could be achieved. This has always been the case, long before the internet came into being. This is the context in which we should see pushback against Mumsnet when compared to other, far more offensive but somehow less vilified social networks." (continues)
www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/05/demonisation-mumsnet-just-latest-incarnation-witch-hunting

I love it here. Just this topic title being the reaction is all it takes to reaffirm that and I can’t stop smiling when I see it.

'Believed to be'? So she is assuming everyone is like her? Am I supposed to 'sound black' in some way or maybe just announce 'I'm black' at the start of each post so that she can keep accurate statistics.

Well first thing we should do obviously is announce our pronouns, followed by, and in no particular order our characteristics under the Equality Act. Every time, every post, we need to include this information. Let's get with the re program.

Yet, some of the mums have got a bee in their bonnet about something. How funny! Well, it sounds amusing until you realise that these mums are probably right-wing fascists. And racists and homophobes too.

Don’t worry, we’ve been monitoring Mumsnet, so we can report back on what these mums are really thinking and the reasons why they’ve got their knickers in a twist. No, we didn’t ask any of them to write an article themselves, because they won’t understand why they behave the way they do. They’re just mums.

The community isolates its members in a bubble of transphobic thought that leaves them free to develop their bigotries without needing to encounter the human beings affected by them.

What a hoot!

They have no idea how women are organising around this, off mn.

And ignores past trans rational posters here.

The whole thing is an antiwoman, anti mother, agist and sexist moan/ smear.

(Anti mother as it assumes that mums can't think properly 🤔)

Women raising concerns about their rights to privacy, dignity, safe spaces and safeguarding children are like animals (angry dogs or something)? Just stepping over that misogynistic mess.