Why do we need pronouns when we have names?

That isn't anything to do with someone refusing to put their own pronouns in an email.

Because if you believe that they have pronouns, then presumably you also believe it's up to them to decide whether to share them or not.

I received an email recently from someone who is obviously "non-binary" 🙄 because 'Jonny' specified they/them pronouns. Honestly - who cares?!
I want to buy a top from the company that Jonny works for; I do not want or need to share a bed with Jonny.
Should I wish to compliment or complain to Jonny's company about Jonny, I am sure my use of he/she/they/whatever will be the last thing on Jonny's mind and I doubt the company will care overmuch either.

That link is for refusing to refer to someone by their preferred pronouns, not for refusing to declare their own pronouns in an email as you claimed. Do you have another link?

But I have very clearly said more than once the cases were in schools refusing to use pronouns.

I am not silly and aware this isn't an email, but one would be naive to believe it isn't a slippery slope, otherwise how do we legislate for children's pronouns being used and not adults ?

I have googled it. I can’t find any case of someone being dismissed for not putting their pronouns in their email. Do you have a link?

@NotBadConsidering

Well irt doesn't matter if you're not comfortable , you need to respect those who are.

See how this battle can go on all day? That was my point.

BOTH voices need to be heard and a compromise reached. Not 'im not doing it'.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/02/us/virginia-teacher-says-wrongfully-fired-student-wrong-pronouns-trnd/index.html

There are several along these lines. I appreciate this isn't in relation to email but one would be naive to believe it won't be a slippery slope.

@NotBadConsidering

Why don't you address me directly then instead of pretending I'm not here?

I think the battle for both voices to be heard is a good thing, yes. That OK with you ?

You're talking nonsense on the amendment. America has a massive cancel culture! Also, if you take a quick Google of it, I am not making these cases up.

Have you got a link to the case in the US, driveway? It certainly sounds interesting.

Not wanting to reveal their gender identity to the world
Not wanting to raise the risk of sex discrimination
Not believing that pronouns can be anything other than sex-based
Not wanting to compel others to refer to them in a certain way.

These reasons should be respected.

Do you have a reference for the person who lost their job for not doing this in a work email?

It really isn't important enough an issue to be a battle that rages on. It's a peripheral idea that will come and go.

You are of course welcome not to, but in some places, and depending how you refuse, it can be a disciplinary/sackable offence.

For what reason though?

Boss: ''Everyone, you need to put your pronouns in your emails.''

Employee: ''No thank you, I'd rather not.''

Boss: ''You're sacked then.''

Sacked for what? What if the employee objecting was a trans person? Should they be fired?

I also don’t understand why someone would think a battle raging through a lifetime to compel people to say something they’re not comfortable saying would be considered a good thing.

My boss talks an absolute load of bollocks a lot of the time. Can I tell him that?

Here's the thing.

Post covid, let's imagine there are redundancies in an office.

In the same way someone I know who was one of the best workers was somehow rated the lowest due to their union activities, which they can't be sacked for, do you not think someone who point blank refuses to follow company policy, because that is what you are doing, might be seen as being difficult? Rather than brave and courageous?

The person lost.

I think so.

It's probably psychologically healthier to be optimistic about freedom of belief and expression prevailing than fantasising about people being punished by their employers for wrongthink.

I think there will be significant push back, especially if/when men are negatively impacted by this. Atm it seems that many people are reporting that the men in their organisation simply ignore requests for compulsory pronouns and don't face any consequences.

I am not trans. I use she / her on my emails because i am she / her. It's a fact.

What's the problem?

I mean, we can and will disagree on the offensive use of the word nonsense but let's stay on track here.

Whatever my views, this battle will rage on for my lifetime. And so if should.

especially in years to come.

Or alternatively in years to come there'll be some rowing back on this nonsense. We'll see.

However, a really large percentage of women have names that will be recognised as female by most of the people they interact with through work. What would be your advice to them regarding that?

Why draw attention to your sex when you know you will be treated differently? Makes no sense.

Also, how does that work? When discussing team activities you have to go and check everyone's pronouns before talking about something relating to them? Have an excel so you can check quickly? Do you just put in everyone's pronouns, even when they are sex based, or do you only do it for the people who have pronouns different than their sex? Isn't that then othering? Doesn't it just draw attention to those people who are transgender as they are the people you have to go look up in your excel? Would there be a risk for transgender people, like for women, that this whole pronoun thing just leads to unfavourable bias against them?

Elegant solution!