More transgender people are hiding their identity at work in the U.K. Why?

And the big one. The idea is that the only reason men would be awful to a trans woman at work, men who have form for being blokey, sexist (sounds like) and homophobic, because they've been listening to some women on the internet? That's ridiculous.

It is. It absolutely enrages me. Blokey sexist homophobic blokes taking their cues from feminist women? I don't think so somehow.

Reminds me of quite a prominent TRA who got harrased by some such men on a bus, along with her friend. I felt for her, it sounded awful. Then she finished her recounting by saying that this is where "terf rhetoric" leads. As if the sort of nasty thugs who harrass people in public would know what a terf is, let alone take any notice of them. I didn't have any less sympathy for her, but I was agog that she used it to have a dig at "terfs".

I don't know what it is: misogyny, emotional blackmail, stupidity, cowardice in not going after the real perpetrators. But I'm not having it!

'England. Almost 80 percent of her colleagues were male, and the culture was very "laddish," she said.

"All of the work parties were just, 'Let's go and get smashed on Stella [beer],' kind of thing," she said. "And I witnessed lots of homophobia toward another one of my colleagues."'

How was this workplace for women?
Were the women never invited to the drinks or did some of them drink Stella with the chaps (shocker)

If this person knew that the drinks were blokey then they must have gone at least once

If the blokes were excluding women/ being really sexist then what did this person try to do about it? Anything?

Ditto witnessing homophobic bullying. Should have talked to a manager or HR.

They left so never knew how it would have been taken. (Although may well have been right).

And the big one. The idea is that the only reason men would be awful to a trans woman at work, men who have form for being blokey, sexist (sounds like) and homophobic, because they've been listening to some women on the internet? That's ridiculous.

Note there is no mention of the women at work at all. Which is a bit of a gap.

There will always be personal things that we don't share with others in the workplace; for a variety of reasons. Some things are just too intimate to trust to such a situation.

I don't see what anyone's personal feelings around identity has to do with work. Just get on with your job, and do it it to the best of your ability.

COVID has in many ways been an absolute godsend. It's removed the claustrophobia associated with this constantly probing, inquisitive, tell-all and bare your soul (ugh) environment. I really don't relish the prospect of returning to that.

Well said. I feel the same way. I share personal details at work only if a person is my friend. I don't believe oversharing creates a professional atmosphere-in fact I believe it does the opposite. I had an experience where a new manager over shared her SIL's infertility and adoption journey to such an extent that I felt embarrassed for the SIL who I didn't know and lost a great deal of respect for manager as a result. I would have preferred not to know this part of her...as it made it difficult for me to trust my new manager to have my back with work projects. If she treated a family member so poorly, imagine how she'd treat an employee!

I can't bear that toe-curlingly nauseating phrase 'bringing your whole self to work'. I don't want to. My workplace gets my total commitment to my job. It gets my research expertise. It gets my dedication, accuracy, care and professionalism, and it gets this (as a general rule) at significantly more than my contracted hours. Not to mention this is now seen as an expectation in a world where 'action short of a strike' is taken as what should be the norm of working to contract.

My employer gets quite enough of me. Some aspects of myself are very much mine, and I consider my privacy an entitlement that I'm not prepared to compromise. Collecting data about my sexuality, etc is beyond their remit. People don't have any automatic right to this information just because they ask for it, and I am wholly sick of this culture of an automatic assumption of disclosure. Even worse are the constant KiT meetings (until this year, when WFH became the norm) expecting staff to disclose their 'feelings' and have detailed discussions about the state of their mental wellbeing. I have no wish to discuss such deeply personal matters with a LM I don't trust and who is not in my confidence. And yes, my employer is just about up to its nuts in Allies, and is drawing up consultation documents very much to the detriment of the privacy and dignity of women at this moment.

COVID has in many ways been an absolute godsend. It's removed the claustrophobia associated with this constantly probing, inquisitive, tell-all and bare your soul (ugh) environment. I really don't relish the prospect of returning to that.

I have a history of experiencing gender noncomformity, and so recognise it in others. That by itself would not influence me one way or another in hiring.

What would affect a hiring is someone being a narcissistic dick, about whatever subject.

From the article:

British author J.K. Rowling's comments on same-sex spaces further stoked hostility against the transgender community in the U.K.

No it bloody didn't! They were the ones stoking the hostility against her. Her views were calm, measured and sensitively expressed. She wasn't the one making the death threats, trying to discredit them in their workplace, 'deplatforming' anyone or making threats of physical or sexual violence. Nor was she the one making repulsive accusations that those who are victims of male abusive and violence are 'weaponising your trauma'. The lobbyists were the ones gleefully engaging in all the above.

That they can treat one woman this way and make it all about themselves being the victims is well-nigh incredible. They really have DARVO down to a fine art.

Grifters ahoy.

That would be supposing the intent was to improve the situation, rather than just another opportunity to shout at women and trample on their rights.

Quite.

I’m just not sure that the current approach of shouting at people to stop being transphobic and trampling over women’s rights has done much to improve the situation.

That would be supposing the intent was to improve the situation, rather than just another opportunity to shout at women and trample on their rights.

If you think that anything other than 100% agreement with the activists is transphobia, it is the case that in the UK, there is more public questioning of those things. Compared to where I live where you wouldn't dare let out a peep about any of it.

But really, that just comes down to public discussion of controversial or difficult questions equals bigotry.

I'm not convinced that is the real explanation of the numbers in this link though.

I understand that. The bit i don't understand is how a trans person too scared to come out in case they are bullied in a male dominated organisation, can blame that on feminists.

the only bullying of trans or gay people I have ever witnessed in 25 years in the workplace has come from men, behind the person's back not to their face, and even that was many years ago. Nobody I work with gives a shit if people are gay or straight as it has no relevance in the workplace and if there are trans people among us, nobody would give a shit about that either.

Why would you need to bring your whole self to work? Does this mean I can/should air all my relationship troubles at work? Talk about my surgery? What a ridiculous concept.

Yes that is very true. I can't be my authentic gender critical self at work or anywhere and have to use Twitter anonymously for fear of being doxxed, discriminated against, verbally and physically intimidated or called abusive words like the c words and transphobic which I absolutely do not accept.

The report suggests that the primary reason that transgender people hide their status is because of workplace bullying. It's not complicated - it's for the same reason some gay people hide their sexuality.

www.totaljobs.com/advice/trans-employee-experiences-survey-2021-research-conducted-by-totaljobs

I’m thoroughly confused now.

Shizuku has previously told us that we all encounter trans people all the time, but we don’t know because they pass. Presumably, as they pass, they can’t be discriminated against for being trans, and they have no need to come out. So coming out really isn’t an issue for them. How would they have responded to these questions?

Also, in the piece, JKR is referred to as “coming out” regarding her opinion on women’s rights and gender issues, but this is framed as bad and wrong. She should have stayed closeted.

I don’t think people should be discriminated against in employment for being trans, which I hope goes without saying. I’m just not sure that the current approach of shouting at people to stop being transphobic and trampling over women’s rights has done much to improve the situation.

This is interesting
www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/experts/legal/latest-legal-developments-in-gender-reassignment-discrimination#gref

Paradoxically, it is notable that although discrimination against trans people in the employment context (and wider society) is rife, and in recent years the issue has been brought to the forefront by activists, there has been little employment-related case law over the same period.

I wonder why trans people aren't taking employers to court over discrimination?

Why should anyone care if anyone is trans (or not) at work? I literally couldn't care whether the person I'm working with is male, female or thinks they are a woman/man as long as they update that damn spreadsheet properly etc.

I've spent years trying to get by as a woman in a male-dominated industry, now finally women can be there on more or less an equal footing. The whole point is were trying to get to a point where it doesn't matter in the workplace whether you are male or female, so equally nobody should car or need to know either way if you consider yourself trans. I really don't care about anyone's sex or perceived gender at work, and certainly do not have any need or wish to know about their sex lives - I only care if they are good at their jobs and reasonably nice people.

That article is confusing. Later it says "Transphobia extends beyond the workplace. More than half (51%) think Women’s Aid the UK domestic violence charity, is wrong to consider lifting its ban on transgender women working in their refuges. Over a third (37%) feel transgender women should not have a choice to take hormone therapy so they can potentially breastfeed their baby after the first recorded case of its kind was published February this year. And, nearly a quarter (23%) think that the Labour Party was wrong to open its all-women shortlists to self-identifying transgender women.*
None of that is transphobia. All of that is about how you define woman and whether you believe biological sex is important to how women navigate the world.

They also are not clear about what questions they asked in their poll.

All my employers (5 over 20 years) have had out transgender employees, so if its true that "74% of employers have never knowingly worked with a transgender person" then I must have been exceedingly unusual in the companies I've worked for.

This does not surprise me. Fear of the reaction and @Shizuku the figures are no great shock to me. Another reason not to insist on pronouns being declared, as other threads have noted.

Maybe they are afraid of loosing their job:

www.crosslandsolicitors.com/site/hr-hub/transgender-discrimination-in-UK-workplaces

"Our shocking new report reveals a strong prejudice among UK employers towards transgender workers with 1 in 3 employers admitting they are ‘less likely’ to hire a transgender person and nearly half (43%) unsure if they would recruit a transgender worker."