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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can anyone help me please, I want to make a (probably completely pointless) complaint to a newspaper *[Content warning: concerns child sex abuse]

87 replies

UnderHisAye · 12/04/2021 12:36

My local newspaper is reporting that this person has been convicted of downloading a video of a two year old being raped. This person also had searched online for information on raping and killing toddlers.

According to the sheriff's comments, this would usually mean a custodial sentence but ".I have to look at whether other options are available and in this case there are. “I will impose a Community Payback Order because of the exceptional circumstances involving mental health and various other reasons."

At a guess these mental health/exceptional circumstances are related to this person changing pronouns. They have also been subjected to the terrible fate of only being allowed ONE phone and laptop. Hmm

I want to complain to the news organisation about how they refer to this person who is legally male and, as far as I can tell, has no GRC. I'm not sure exactly how to come at it, although I feel they're complicit in gaslighting on an epic scale.

Does anyone have any text they've previously used which they could share with me?

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R0wantrees · 14/04/2021 11:02

What I would say is that I do think there is a wider debate on transgender issues to be had – and it is one that The Courier will be actively involved with.

It might be worth ensuring that the Courier's editor is aware of the 'Bench Book' guidelines which are most likely influencing what the press are able to report from court as much as IPSO. It may be that journalists committed to reporting using accurate language will share concerns of many feminist solicitors and barristers:

Law Gazette
'Warning over transgender guidance to judges'
By Melanie Newman 24 February 2020
(extract)
"Guidance for judges on transgender issues has come under fire from solicitors in the wake of controversial court rulings. Feminist lawyers say the guidance, in the Equal Treatment Bench Book, fails to highlight conflicts between transgender and women’s rights.

The Bench Book advises that transgender defendants should be addressed by the pronouns of their choice and that ‘self-definition is the most important criteria’ (sic). At least one victim of violence by a transgender woman has been reprimanded in court for using male pronouns while describing the attack. Finding the defendant guilty, the judge refused the victim compensation, saying that when asked to refer to the defendant as ‘she’, the victim had done so with ‘bad grace’ or continued to use ‘he’.

Solicitor Harriet Wistrich, head of the Centre for Women’s Justice, has raised concerns about pronoun use in cases involving violence against women. ‘Here there is a conflict between the right of self-definition and the right of a victim, who may have been violated in the most horrendous way, to describe her material reality as she perceives it,’ she said. ‘Why is the victim’s right less important?’

The Bench Book also endorses the terms ‘cisgender’ or ‘cis’ as ‘often used to describe people whose gender identity corresponds to the sex assigned to them at birth’. The book does not mention that some women find the term ‘cis’ offensive. The Gazette understands that the term was also introduced to judges at a training session last year without any kind of warning as to its use.

Criminal defence barrister Allison Bailey of the LGB Alliance, which campaigns for the rights of same-sex attracted people, told the Gazette: ‘Judges have been led to believe that women do not mind being described as cisgender when it is regarded by many, myself included, as highly offensive. I do not have a gender and object to being redefined by men who wish to live as women. It is the most offensive power play.’ (continues)
www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/warning-over-transgender-guidance-to-judges/5103196.article

UnderHisAye · 14/04/2021 10:51

RESPONSE:

Denen Anderson was referred to in court as a woman and was tried – and convicted – as such. You say that Anderson is ‘very clearly a male’. That may be your understanding or belief, but that is not something which was examined during the court proceedings and, in my opinion, not something for The Courier to second guess.

We follow official guidance from our regulator IPSO in such matters, and I believe we covered this case fairly and responsibly.
What I would say is that I do think there is a wider debate on transgender issues to be had – and it is one that The Courier will be actively involved with.

I have replied thanking the Editor for their reply, and pointing out some of the ways in which they could join the debate, by highlighting, for example, how the Hate Crime Bill, and the way those who question the impact of trans issues on women, are painted as purveyors of hate speech, or how Scotland's prison have become mixed-sex estates due to a policy which allows people to be sited according to their chosen gender.

It's frustrating as it can go nowhere, I just wanted to lay down a marker that says someone notices when newspapers are coerced into gaslighting the population.

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Thelnebriati · 13/04/2021 21:11

@LiveLuvLaugh
I read a trans perspective on this - that natal women also commit sexually violent crimes eg Myra Hindley, Rose West so women are capable of these crimes. How do we counter this argument?

Thats an argument used by MRA's and it shows a lack of understanding of how to perform a risk assessment or uphold safeguarding.
No one says 'women aren't capable of serious crimes', so the starting point is false - its a straw man argument. Conviction statistics prove that women don't commit series or sexual crimes at anywhere near the rates of men. So as a group, women are less of a risk than men.
Safeguarding is not just about not being murdered; it exists to lower the risk of any kind of assault.

Ravenclawsome · 13/04/2021 17:45

@RoyalCorgi

The problem here is less the newspaper and more that the court will have used female pronouns throughout because that's what their own guidelines tell them to do. Institutional capture at its finest.
IPSO guidelines also prevent the paper from saying "he" outside the direct quotes. Apparently transgender status can only be made clear "where relevant", which seems to boil down to occasions where they were attacked for being trans. 🙄
Palavah · 13/04/2021 15:45

@curiousaboutsamphire yes, thanks. Informative.

RoyalCorgi · 13/04/2021 15:41

The problem here is less the newspaper and more that the court will have used female pronouns throughout because that's what their own guidelines tell them to do. Institutional capture at its finest.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/04/2021 15:06

[quote Palavah]@Trixie78 I asked a question. There's no need to be so rude.[/quote]
Did you get anything from any of the answers?

Palavah · 13/04/2021 14:04

@Trixie78 I asked a question. There's no need to be so rude.

Trixie78 · 13/04/2021 08:58

@Palavah

Is the natal sex of the offender really the most worrying aspect of the ruling?
No it's the way it's being lied about and misrepresented. You shouldn't comment on things you really don't understand.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/04/2021 08:55

natal women also commit sexually violent crimes eg Myra Hindley, Rose West so women are capable of these crimes. How do we counter this argument?

  • The numbers - 95+% of all violent crime is committed by men
  • You can often name the violent women, describe in detail their offences that's how unusual they are. Name the violent men, tell me specifically their offences. So that street fight in Swindon - if female most would be able to say what night, what road, how many, who the victims were. If men, yeah same old, same old!
  • Logic - we build laws and social mores around probabilities, our observed realities. We all know that most violence is male. We don't need to be told that. Just as we know that some women are also violent. We use different comparators, most/some when we think and talk about it.

In short - don't play games, soft lad. We all know what the truth is!

manatsu · 13/04/2021 08:36

I don't see how anyone would search for and make notes on toddler rape and baby torture unless there is something very wrong with them and they are quite dangerous. Ditto seeking out, downloading, watching and keeping a video of toddler rape among other images. This should be taken very seriously and this person should not just get a slap on the wrist.

LiveLuvLaugh · 13/04/2021 08:13

I read a trans perspective on this - that natal women also commit sexually violent crimes eg Myra Hindley, Rose West so women are capable of these crimes. How do we counter this argument? The vast majority of the minute number women convicted of these crimes are enthral to violent deviant men. I worry that more and more disturbed young men will be attracted to the availability of trans women identities but it's considered transphobic to say this let alone research it. I think that quietly many ordinary decent trans women that just want to get on with life without upsetting anyone or being weaponised by trans idealogues probably think this too.

Mugginyouleftrightandcentre · 13/04/2021 08:09

It's funny how those who argue 'the sex of the perpetrator is irrelevant, it is wrong to draw attention to the trans status of a perpetrator etc' are usually the exact same people who argue that single sex provision isn't important because 'women can be just as bad'...

Ravenclawsome · 13/04/2021 07:51

This - from the head of the paper's courts team (according to his bio) - is telling. Suggests they want to report the sex but can't unless the judge specifically states the fact in court

Can anyone help me please, I want to make a (probably completely pointless) complaint to a newspaper *[Content warning: concerns child sex abuse]
picklemewalnuts · 12/04/2021 18:02

This statement is bizarre.
"There was an indecent video of a male child, around two years old, having penetrative sex with an adult female."

There was no need to mention the sex of the adult. 'Penetrative sex' instead of rape could suggest the adult doesn't have a penis.

What a world, where we have to wonder the meaning of a sentence like that!

UnderHisAye · 12/04/2021 16:10

Exactly. I can't work out whether that's an act of Terfy bravery or cowardice.

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R0wantrees · 12/04/2021 16:08

UnderHisAye They made sex clear by using directly quoted speech.

UnderHisAye · 12/04/2021 15:46

Yes I think you're right Rowantrees, the article in which they use 'he' quotes the mother of the child who was assaulted. She says he, which I guess meant they had to too, otherwise it would have looked bonkers. Just an editorial decision really.

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R0wantrees · 12/04/2021 15:40

I looked back at one of the Dolatowski articles and noticed they seemed to have no trouble saying 'he' in 2019, which makes me wonder if the political climate around this has pushed them into compliance.

The first article about Dolatowski was conspicuous in its avoidance of any sex specific terms. There was discussion on FWR about how on that basis the alleged perpetrator was likely male and identified as trans.
This was later confirmed after the convictions.

UnderHisAye · 12/04/2021 15:39

The full piece for anyone who can't see it.

A teenage girl who downloaded a toddler rape video and researched murdering babies has been allowed to walk free from court.

Denen Steven Anderson has been banned from having any contact with children under the age of 18 and prohibited from using social network sites.

Anderson, 18, was placed on the Sex Offenders Register for two years.

Sheriff Alistair Carmichael told her: “You pled guilty to a serious matter here.

“It is something which would often require a custodial sentence.

“I have to look at whether other options are available and in this case there are.

“I will impose a Community Payback Order because of the exceptional circumstances involving mental health and various other reasons.”

‘Toddler murder’ notes
Dundee Sheriff Court heard how Anderson was found with horrifying material on her phone including footage of a child aged around two years old being raped by an adult woman.

The teenager admitted downloading the video and a number of graphic still images, when she appeared at the court on a previous occasion.

Dundee Sheriff Court
The court was told Anderson had notes on her phone which referred to “baby torture” and “toddler murder”, among various other similar terms.

Fiscal depute Gavin Burton said: “A search warrant for the locus was granted and officers attended on 6 November last year.

“It was her grandmother’s address and the accused was traced.

“Several items were recovered including a USB hard drive, a computer tower and a mobile phone.

“During the search she said she wished to disclose information and was reminded she was under caution.

“She advised there were images of an indecent nature on one of the devices.”

Forensic search
Mr Burton said: “On 9 November a forensic computer analyst carried out an examination of a blue Samsung mobile phone.

“There was an indecent video of a male child, around two years old, having penetrative sex with an adult female.

“There were at least seven indecent still images, of children from one to five years old, and they were category A, B and C.

“They found deleted notes on ‘kid killers, toddler torture, baby torture, baby abuse, toddler murder, baby killer, child abusers, baby rape, kid rape, toddler rape, suffering animal abuse.’

“On 10 November the accused was arrested and conveyed to police HQ.

“She was cautioned and charged and made no response.”

‘Spent a long time on her computer’
Anderson, Artillery Lane, Dundee, admitted downloading child abuse material at her home between August 24 and November 8 last year.

Denen Anderson
Her defence solicitor Anika Jethwa, told the court earlier this year: “Speaking to her mother, she clearly spent a long time on the computer and unfortunately became involved in these particular offences.

“It was initially chatting to people on various forums and it escalated from there.

“She appreciates she has put herself in an extremely serious position and has been very fearful about appearing in court.

“She accepts responsibility and culpability for this behaviour.

“She is hoping to get some assistance with these particular difficulties. She is anxious to get help.”

Banned from child contact
Anderson was placed under a Community Payback Order for two years as a direct alternative to custody and has been ordered to attend the Tay Project for sex offenders.

I will impose a Community Payback Order because of the exceptional circumstances involving mental health and various other reasons.”

Sheriff Alistair Carmichael

She was also made subject to a wide-ranging conduct requirement, banning her from having contact with children, and restricting her access to the internet.

She has been banned from having more than one phone and computer and has been banned from installing history deleting software or third party apps without her supervising officer’s approval.

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UnderHisAye · 12/04/2021 15:38

I spent too longer pondering the same thing until it finally clicked...

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XDownwiththissortofthingX · 12/04/2021 15:37

Which would be a better cause for a letter of complaint! Bloody stupid, reprehensible journalism!

Yes. They've perhaps painted a misleading picture here in more ways than one. The description is quite unequivocal in the use of the terms 'male child', and 'adult female', which leads me to think it's the use of the term 'rape' which is erroneous. Either way, it's really shoddy journalism.

I can't see the Courier piece, so I can't say whether the Record one is verbatim or not, but I'd expect better of the Courier at least.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 12/04/2021 15:34

"There was an indecent video of a male child, around two years old, having penetrative sex with an adult female" Not that I want to but thinking that through again, wtf does that mean?! That was most definitely rhetorical... please don't anyone try and actually answer it!

Thelnebriati · 12/04/2021 15:34

Why arent IPSO obliged to follow the law like the rest of us?

UnderHisAye · 12/04/2021 15:33

It was part of my email!

I looked back at one of the Dolatowski articles and noticed they seemed to have no trouble saying 'he' in 2019, which makes me wonder if the political climate around this has pushed them into compliance.

How depressing.

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