Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

[quote Boxty]www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/gender-neutral-toilets-in-schools-1.4545979?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true[/quote]
Thanks for the link. Those letters are excellent and I think that they reflect the views of the majority.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/gender-neutral-toilets-in-schools-1.4545979?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Has anyone a link to the Times letters?

[quote MnaWomanIreland]@fireproofwitch I’ve gone in with an FOI. Never did one before so hopefully I got it right!

Great letters to the Editor in the Irish Times today. We need the department to actually revise this guide- the only way they will is through parent pressure. Keep writing to your TD and write to the department also.

I asked for a copy of the Equality Impact Assessment and I got back a load of waffle. I wonder if one exists at all? I think that there’s some law that all public bodies need to carry one out if they are changing policy. Some Equality Law but I can’t quite remember. Does anyone else know? If there is and they didn’t carry one out they will be in hot water![/quote]
That's great. It will be interesting to see what the FOI request throws up.
I don't know about the Impact Assessment.,possibly that is in the UK? They don't tend to worry about women too much in Ireland.

@fireproofwitch I’ve gone in with an FOI. Never did one before so hopefully I got it right!

Great letters to the Editor in the Irish Times today. We need the department to actually revise this guide- the only way they will is through parent pressure. Keep writing to your TD and write to the department also.

I asked for a copy of the Equality Impact Assessment and I got back a load of waffle. I wonder if one exists at all? I think that there’s some law that all public bodies need to carry one out if they are changing policy. Some Equality Law but I can’t quite remember. Does anyone else know? If there is and they didn’t carry one out they will be in hot water!

As if little children don’t already have enough difficulty already trying to make sense of their worlds.

@fireproofwitch thanks yes, that disgraceful piece by NM made me almost physically sick when I read it. I just couldn't believe that he subscribes to this. The institutional capture here is frightening. You are right, most parents have no idea. The way that little question was framed... Is being a boy or a girl just a feeling now?

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/an-open-letter-to-irelands-childrens&ved=2ahUKEwisp8rJl5XwAhUYAWMBHeD9C-kQFjACegQICxAC&usg=AOvVaw2dT70KVsdYrlF4XqjlP67M" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/an-open-letter-to-irelands-childrens&ved=2ahUKEwisp8rJl5XwAhUYAWMBHeD9C-kQFjACegQICxAC&usg=AOvVaw2dT70KVsdYrlF4XqjlP67M
Most people in Ireland have no idea that this ideology, that is being pushed onto children, is supported by the very people we expect to protect them.

Jul26m
“Can you give more information on how exactly this person attending toilets that match their gender identity excludes some females accessing facilities?”

I think what was meant was that, because of the need for a trans girl to have access to a safer space (girls’ lavatories), schools are solving the problem by making it so no girls are allowed to have their own safe space at all any more.

The answer is that there need to be single sex toilets (open to stop bullying if need be) and also an adequate number of individual, unisex ones - as many people on this thread seem to agree.

I don't like this survey on the oco.ie website.. Look at one of the first questions it asks children. Infuriating and setting seeds in impressionable young children that sex is optional and/or of no importance. This the #HaveYourSay survey that is currently live on the homepage, so seems relevant to this discussion. I have heard that children have been encouraged by their schools to fill this out.

Heartening responses to Colm O'Gorman's tweet there.

MountainWitch
“The loos have no lids either so you can't even sit on the loo and have a cry/moment to yourself.
It's a community facility too so in the evenings/weekends you have adults using the facilities too.“

No lids is an interesting extra point about these new arrangements not only for the reason you point out, but also because since covid it was found there is a aerosol effect when flushing which can be minimised by closing the lid.

[quote MnaWomanIreland]This one consulted 4,000 LGBT young people. I’m still looking for other sources. Would this be retrievable from the department via an FOI?

assets.gov.ie/24459/9355b474de34447cb9a55261542a39cf.pdf[/quote]
If the only group that was consulted was LGBT groups then it would be pretty much the same route that was taken when Self ID was introduced.
Women weren't considered then either.

This one consulted 4,000 LGBT young people. I’m still looking for other sources. Would this be retrievable from the department via an FOI?

assets.gov.ie/24459/9355b474de34447cb9a55261542a39cf.pdf

[quote MnaWomanIreland]@fireproofwitch it would have been one of the surveys. I can only hope that it isn’t the only one.[/quote]
It would be interesting to see what other research (if any) was considered.

@fireproofwitch it would have been one of the surveys. I can only hope that it isn’t the only one.

[quote MnaWomanIreland]Apparently a survey of 778 LGBT young people in 2019 overrides the fact that 1,000,000 other students weren’t consulted

belongto.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BeLonG-To-School-Climate-Report-2019.pdf[/quote]
Is this the "research" that was used to support this decision?

Pretty conclusive then?

@PopcornAndWine the department are back pedalling fast on this. Putting out statements that the school can choose etc. However that’s difficult on practice. Funding for schools is based on following the Guides.

Also the Guide is only mixed sex. Of it was an option then the options should have been indicated to provide clarity.

I would also note that the number of toilets in the current Guide is a ratio of 1:20 students. The previous Technical Guidance was 1:20 and also that the ratio was to assume that the school was made up of 60% female and 60% males. So this new Guide cuts down on the number of toilets as well as removing urinals. Good luck with the queues I say!

@MnaWomanIreland that's what I thought. I feel like I'm going crazy! No one seems to be challenging Noah on this falsehood and he has a big following. I can't speak in public about this as I would genuinely fear for my job

Apparently a survey of 778 LGBT young people in 2019 overrides the fact that 1,000,000 other students weren’t consulted

belongto.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BeLonG-To-School-Climate-Report-2019.pdf

Just came across a discussion on Twitter, some interesting posts

twitter.com/Colmogorman/status/1385251897871851524

In the publication there is an alternative which can be considered on a case by case basis and only if the department agrees to it.

It’s basically a walk in between the sinks so dividing it into two rooms. HOWEVER each room has students marked in it and not male female.