Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

I have an idea they have some rainbow-tinted vision of nice, obedient boys and girls and nonbinaries tripping carefully like little grown ups into the toilets and respectfully maintaining boundaries using correct pronouns and hand sanitising like they're supposed to.

Anyone who's worked in a school will know differently.

Reminds me of post-covid measures in our primary school, all carefully thought through and implemented and rendered utterly ineffectual within ten minutes of the kids running about screaming, licking and sneezing on each other.

I don't mean to be dismissively flip, either. Safeguarding means considering the worst possible outcomes/behaviour and trying to ensure it doesn't happen. Not starting from some utopian vision and trying to work backwards.

I wish I wrote an angrier email though 😡

Write to your TD. Write to the department. Here’s my letter to Minister Foley

With regards to the new School Design Guide I note that single sex toilet facilities are no longer to be afforded to school aged children. This is a change in policy from the previous Technical Guidance.

It surprises me that the exemption on the gender ground, section 5(2)(g), in the Equal Status Acts 2000-2018 is no longer being relied upon. This exemption can be used if someone might be embarrassed by the presence of the opposite gender because of lack of privacy. Menstruating girls should be able to rely upon this exemption and indeed boys may also feel embarrassed by the presence of girls while they are toileting.

I assume that in order to arrive at this decision the Department has undertaken extensive consultation with staff and service users as is the Department’s statutory obligation under Section 42 of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission Act 2014.

I note that an Equality Impact Assessment is the norm when meeting this statutory obligation.

I would be obliged if you could forward to me the Equality Impact Assessment and copies of all consultations carried out with any parties. I would also appreciate if you could confirm if consultations were carried out with other parties which do not come under the statutory obligations.

I note that this is probably large in volume and I thank you in advance for compiling same.

If necessary this can be handled under a freedom of information request under the 2014 Act.

@ASugarr

You recently shared a video on your Twitter page condemning the French government for their laws on the hijab. You think they are discriminatory. Britain has a large population of Muslim women who are not happy with mixed sex toilets.

How do you draw your lines of what is acceptable and what isn't?

Are mixed sex toilets to be celebrated because it suits your ideology around gender fluidity and because you think trans people trump Muslim people in this instance?

It is in everyone's interest to have all toilets remain single sex. If you want the vanishingly small population of trans people to feel comfortable in the toilet then you should campaign for a third space for them. It is not right to rip away women's hard fought for rights and safety for the sake of another class of people.

Is there anything non-Irish residents can do?

Another Irish radfem group to alert:
radicailin.com/

As it is, DD2 (who has ASD) simply won't use the toilets at school now, at all, despite having a toilet pass. She restricts fluids and we've bought Modibodi period pants, so that she can go all day without needing to change sanitary products.

What an inclusive, kind, tolerant and neurodiverse policy experience this is for your poor DD.

Less access than others. Restrictions that make her less comfortable, less safe and healthy. Biological sex based challenges that she is having to find ways to avoid. No regard or interest whatsoever in her wellbeing, physical or anything else.

All so that male children may experience the emotional benefit of having their preferred freedom of choice from everything at all times.

'No issues'?

DDs2&3's school did this by stealth in lockdown. One school block only had girls toilets. They changed that into a set of mixed sex toilets. 1 toilet for 'girls', one for 'boys' and 3 'gender neutral' toilets. Their cover story rationale was that because they were zoning the school for bubbles due to Covid, they couldn't have boys having nowhere to go to use the loo. Annnnddd... Well they'd been being asked for gender neutral toilets for years. Who knows whether a trans individual would be more comfortable using a toilet labelled with their new gender? Who knows whether a child may prefer a neutral toilet, so let's put one of each sex and 3 neutral in.

Funnily enough, when I complained, they decided DD2 could use the PE toilets if she was uncomfortable with the gender neutral ones. Interesting that it hadn't been thought of as a solution to the boys having no toilets.

As it is, DD2 (who has ASD) simply won't use the toilets at school now, at all, despite having a toilet pass. She restricts fluids and we've bought Modibodi period pants, so that she can go all day without needing to change sanitary products.

Autism and using a public toilet:
autismawarenesscentre.com/shop/life-skills/sexuality-and-hygiene/tom-needs-go/

Reasons why toilet doors don’t go down to the floor:
www.wcportables.co.uk/blog/why-public-toilet-doors-do-not-reach-the-floor/

While girls are telling us that this is what is happening to them in schools: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56558487
The response from adults is to remove from them single sex toilets, changing rooms and showers for .... reasons......

Impact on girls of mixed sex bathrooms is that they hold their urine in all day and suffer health problems as a result.

www.transgendertrend.com/gender-neutral-toilets-schools/

''Menstruating girls have even said they’re staying home from school because they’re afraid of feeling “period shame.”
Others said they simply didn’t feel safe using the bathroom with boys.''
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542005/Girls-skipping-school-avoid-sharing-gender-neutral-toilets-boys.html

Re flashing. There are girls and boys with learning difficulties and autism who may get into trouble/teased as they forget to close/lock doors.

A real life report:
My granddaughters both go to the same secondary school. For reference it's not particularly big: less than 500 pupils, 11-16 yrs, mixed sex, in a pleasant rural area.

They have changed the toilet provision to mostly "gender neutral". There are two types. The first is from converting the former cloakroom area where the full height doors open directly onto a main corridor (cubicles all have a small sink).
The second type are the former single sex toilets, which have been converted into the open area type shown in the OP's diagrams.
There is still one small set of single sex toilets.

The results of this as reported by my granddaughters (age 11 and 13).
The mixed toilets absolutely stink, the seats are covered in wee, boys harass the girls by trying to open doors and making rude remarks. This is less prevalent in the cubicles which open onto the main corridor- but they still smell vile.
There is always a queue for the remaining girls toilet- girls get into trouble for being late to lessons due to waiting times.
My youngest is absolutely restricting the amount she drinks- tries to "hold it" all day and arrived home absolutely bursting, regularly wetting herself on the rush to the toilet when she gets home. The other is terrified of having her period at school- and also tries to restrict what she drinks to avoid using the toilets.

This is happening everywhere- what a wonderful advance in the care of our young people. Perfectly obvious that the care and welfare of girls doesn't matter.

The only way it could work is if there are separate traditional toilet facilities for girls and boys too.
Yup, Zanda.

I've read through the OP's link, and there is specific guidance that toilet blocks should be located on each floor; and they should be in the same area, to minimise cost of distributing water/sewage I presume.
I work in schools- there is no way I want to share male staff or male students toilets.
My feelings matter. Give me an option- I might occasionally use unisex, but that is my choice.

Comments from being a teacher in various schools:
The boys toilet absolutely stink when they open the door - that stink will be carried out into the corridors.
The boys are more likely to wee on the floor and seat of the toilet cubicles at secondary school. Maybe this will improve because I am sure this doesn’t happen at home.
The boys will bang on the doors of the female cubicles. This has happened to me as a teacher in the disabled loo - they laughed as they heard a crinkly tampon wrapper - got the shock of their lives when I stormed out.

When girls are being harassed by boys, the toilets are safe area. This I have close experience of.

I have helped young girls clean period stains off their skirts and trousers using the sinks and hand dryers in the girls loos.

There will be all sorts of stuff in those sanitary bins. And it’s not nice to sit down next to a sanitary bin brushing your thigh, whatever sex you are.

Gangs congregate round the loos. That will still happen. The sink areas will be a major preening area for the alpha females, putting the boys off or a flirting area (splashing water etc) for both, with the alpha males going for vapes in the loos. Either will put off others going to the loo.

The only way it could work is if there are separate traditional toilet facilities for girls and boys too.

[quote ASugarr]Here's some more information. I personally think it's a wonderful idea. I don't think all toilets in a school should be unisex, but it at least gives young people the choice to if they want to or if they prefer to use their genders bathroom.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-39192130[/quote]
That BBC article doesn't persuade me. There is no follow up with the first school that undertook this change. Also, annoyingly it refers to mixed sex toilets as unisex which they are not.

None of this has any place in schools anyway. Why is there never money for new sports equipment or new books or new computers or provision for kids with disabilities/SN or even loo roll but suddenly there's money for gender neutral toilets.

Ajd to have the nerve to dress it up as beneficial to all when cleaning piss off seats and forcing 11 year old girls to have their first periods next to teenage boys is as far from beneficial as you can get. Why are adults so keen.to use children to prove a point.

This does not work for all females. Own it.

Absolutely agree.

You want unisex/mixed gender spaces, fine. Acknowledge that it will impact on women's safety, women's privacy, religious people. I can acknowledge that there may be some advantages to it (cheaper, for one thing).

It would appear there's a balance to be struck between privacy and safety. Some women and girls don't want to or are prohibited from sharing spaces with males. How do we negotiate this?

Data on general unisex changing rooms

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Without urinals the girls are just gonna have to wipe the seats clean before they use the toilet...

Nice

All this just proves to me that the 2 sexes are very different. And clearly changing sex is not possible.

The male sex can use urinals, a female can't no matter how she may identify.

The female sex have periods and need separate provision for that. No-one male ever will no matter how they identify.

Just proves what a load of hogwash gender is. Provision should be made on the basis of biological sex. With perhaps mixed sex single occupancy loos for those who don't want to use the facilities of their biological sex.