Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

Thanks @XXSex

For what it's worth it's not just girls who are impacted by mixed gender toilets. I asked both my kids to look at the plans. Neither DD (10) nor DS (12) liked how public the area was but said it would ok if all they needed was to pee. When i told them that girls and boys would be sharing their tune changed. Neither wanted to share with the opposite sex. Impacts to girls will be more significant but plenty of boys won't like it either.

Had no idea the Irish Equal Status Act referred to gender rather than sex, makes it so much harder to fight initiatives like this toilet proposal. Also makes it so clear how important it is for UK feminists to fight to keep references to sex in official documents and legislation.

@MichelleofzeResistance I'm wondering about the Irish situation but thanks
@XXSex, that's what I was wondering though didn't ask properly. Does a child have to have gone through the Self-ID process in order to access a single sex school that is not reflective of their birth sex? From what you're saying that is the case but clearly numbers affected would change if the legislation shifts to over 16s.

It seems to be common (anecdotally) for children to be moved to mixed sex schools if they decide they are trans. I see a poster above mentions girls remaining in their all girls schools even after they decide they are boys. I find it hard to imagine a boy in an all boys school making the same decision if he decided he was a girl.

My understanding at present is that female children cannot identify in to independent boys only schools, Eton being an example, but a number of independent girls schools have accepted male children.

Are single sex schools protected as single sex schools while single sex toilets, prisons etc aren't?

Access to toilets should be a fundamental equality thing: how did we get to 'some girls can't use girls' toilets or any toilets at all any more but that's fine because now male children can have their best choice' ?

The whole point of this is making it very clear to female humans: either you treat the male species as VIPS and put them first in everything, or you lose your access to society.

Got a religion or disability or any other reason you can't prioritise a male person's superior needs and feelings and rights? Sucks to be you. Get over it. There's a male person you should be serving.

The whole point of putting this into schools is training girls from the early age that privacy, dignity and sex based facilities are not the right of females and to get used to not having them.

Its unjustifiable sexism and misogyny.

Thanks, @Notoriouslynotnotious, for answering my question! 💐

The irony of my sponsoring building specific girls toilets via PLAN, in an African country, ten years ago, so more girls could not miss school! It has long been recognised as a problem all round the world

Few ever pick up on how racist the whole thing is. Plan will campaign for single sex toilets so girls don't get raped and can attend school, but western men and boys apparently aren't like their Foreign counterparts and must pee next to.little girls to prove it.

The irony of my sponsoring building specific girls toilets via PLAN, in an African country, ten years ago, so more girls could not miss school! It has long been recognised as a problem all round the world.

Multiple examples on this thread of how girls are harming themselves and not going to the toilet when they need to because they hate mixed sex toilets so much.

I can add to that - my DD used to hold it all day until she got to 8 and got single sex toilets. She was like a different child afterwards.

Yes, urine all over the seats, blocked toilets. Yes, boys banging on the doors. All that happened. And that was before they started to go through puberty with all the issues that brings.

This is a scandal. Access to education is a human right for children. If children are scared to pee at school then that is affecting their ability to access education. Even more so when it comes to periods - how many girls stay off because they don't want to use the loos during their period? Has anyone in government bothered to find out?

@Notoriouslynotnotious - if you don’t mind, I’d like to know what happens in a single-sex school when a pupil identifies as trans. I have experience of (religious) single sex schools from many years ago only, and cannot fathom how the presence of trans children would be incorporated in such an environment....

Nothing that I have seen, but the school are introducing trousers for the girls for the first time (maybe that is a nod to dealing with the issue) and it is very likely to help all of the girls even the trans boys. I know my dds trans BFF wears leggings under her skirt currently. I don’t know what happens about names dd calls her friend by her “trans” name and uses pronouns but she isn’t in the same class as her so I don’t know if teachers do.

My children's school has these types of toilets. My sons hate them.

This is purely anecdotal I know and so not data but pre-covid a friend and I were talking and she mentioned how concerned she is that her daughter won't drink anything at school because she hates the toilets so much. Apparently their group of friends all go en masse at lunchtime to another friend's house (very close to the school) to use the toilets because none of them will use the school ones.

So, I guess that won't be regarded as a problem because the girl's have found a work around which still inconveniences them. It won't be reported (although I urged her to speak to the school - don't know if she did) because these particular girls have some solution albeit an awkward one. I do wonder how many other girls are having to come up with their own solutions to avoiding these toilets.

Bloody hell. Were no women consulted either? I was a reasonably confident child, but changing sanpro even with other girls in the next cubicle was embarrassing. No way would I have done it in a mixed toilet, especially when you know boys are specifically listening.

From what I see (visit many schools in work capacity), primary schools are heavily into LGBTQI+.
Think notice boards throughout the school covered in LGBTQI+ posters.

Interesting to see in the last year, when one might think that the many children with SEN would be recognised on notice boards.
Or, Covid signage, or physical/mental health issues.
Nope.
Trans front & centre.
At Primary school.

Their schools are nominally Catholic ethos (under the patronage of the Bishop etc). In practice, very liberal in views, accommodating to the many Muslim children who have space for prayer, additional teaching for children who arrive with little English etc.

My DD's tell me that there are several girls in their classes who identify as trans. It isn't even a mentionable issue- fine, get on with it. Not special, not excluded, just "ok, so". Just like the gay girls. (The gay boys still get a lot of negative stuff, though).

If one of my children was trans, I would be happy for them to be in that environment....where it's not a big deal, everyone is treated with respect, and no-one's rights supersede another.

@Notoriouslynotnotious - if you don’t mind, I’d like to know what happens in a single-sex school when a pupil identifies as trans. I have experience of (religious) single sex schools from many years ago only, and cannot fathom how the presence of trans children would be incorporated in such an environment....

We have some gender neutral toilets at the end of our school canteen. No girls ever use them. No matter how often they are cleaned they are vile. Piss on the toilet seats and often floor. The idea that these types of toilets are the only ones available is horrendous. Teen girls may be able to cope with hovering or something. Primary school girls would struggle greatly.

Following. I live in Ireland and this has appalled me. I have a little girl, she's a way off school age yet so I really hope sanity has been restored by the time she starts.I really can't engage in public advocacy on this issue either, because of my job

I didn't mean consulting, I meant anonymously surveying them after they've been in for a while to see how the new layout is faring. I'm not saying that The impact on children and the welfare of girls having these changes inflicted on them is of no interest to these people, is not so but that, for example, a school I was looking (on the internet) at said that they they wanted to trial these new style toilets to reduce bullying. Maybe it's not because they care but rather it's because something negative is happening so they needed to do something about it, to make them look better, but if they gain other problems, or the bullying has just moved somewhere else within the school, they'll still look bad, so surely they'll still need to study the effects?

Yes the union has been captured @XXSex...