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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Male friend's opposing attitude towards women is troubling

60 replies

Rae34 · 09/04/2021 12:20

I posted recently on a main board about this male friend in his mid 20s & someone suggested I try this board instead. Of late, the friendship has started to bother me as he contacts me too often & contacts me again when I dont reply. It can be emotionally taxing.

But what I am really bothered about is the person I know day to day and the draft scripts he is sending me (we are both writers)

  • I'm part of a feminist organisation giving a platform to women (especially women who have been de platformed for no good reason of late). He has attended some of these online events we have hosted, one of the only men to do so of late. We have decent conversations in person.
  • however he has started sending me scripts he is writing. He is always arrogant about it & never asks for feedback, just tells me to 'enjoy' them.

Well I am not enjoying them. I was quite shocked to find the portrayal of the female characters quite sexist. The women are promiscuous & unfeeling. The newest script idea sounds like a porn film with a title that reduces women to their body. I told him frankly that I didnt like the idea.

I am struggling with the person I have known day to day and the person who sits up late at night hammering out scripts about women like this.

It is setting off my creepometer big time although I have known him for 6 years and not had any major issues before. Can I approach this in any way or is this a sign that he isnt the friend he appears to be?

OP posts:
Rae34 · 09/04/2021 19:41

You're right, he does @IdblowJonSnow (great name). But he never used to be like this.

He never used to come across as an arrogant blowhard in person. That is the first time he has ever made a comment like that as well. I am sure the waitress could care less.

Last time I met him he kept telling me how funny I am - I'm a stand up performer. And then he kept telling awful jokes and I didn't laugh at a single one - well they weren't funny! I could tell he wasn't best pleased.

I think I just need to continue the slow fade. Accept he has changed or it has taken this long for him to show me who he really is. Neither option works for the friendship.

OP posts:
IdblowJonSnow · 09/04/2021 19:33

He sounds like an absolute tool, especially from your latest update. Perhaps the waitress would like to read his work instead then. Hmm

Rae34 · 09/04/2021 19:32

@YouNoob I agree. Had a look back at when he was last describing his latest new idea & how he said he wouldn't tell me anymore because 'I don't want to spoil the rest of it for you Wink' - I mean really?

I feel a bit sad about fading him out permanently. You are seeing the 'worst cuts' here but there have been plenty of good times in the friendship over the last 6 years. He has recently offered to introduce me to people in the industry (he comes from a famous acting family) but it isn't worth it. I'll make my own way, for better or worse.

OP posts:
YouNoob · 09/04/2021 19:13

He's not respecting your boundaries, OP. Pouting? Really? He's guilt tripping you to push your boundaries.

Rae34 · 09/04/2021 18:57

@Regularsizedrudy

Jesus just ditch the creep. Why all this hand wringing?
We have been friends for six years and I have mainly enjoyed his friendship during that time. I have never ended or faded a friendship in adulthood, so I suppose I am struggling with a bit of guilt. We will definitely meet again at the same future events as well, so burning bridges isn't a great idea.

But little things annoy me. He can be pushy - when we meet up, I'm happy to meet for 2 or 3 hours but this never seems to be enough. He starts to pout if I want to leave after that period, but to me that is a perfectly normal amount of time to catch up with a casual friend.

He also said he thought the waitress fancied him the last time I met him in a bar - I mean really? She was a professional doing her job. We had had a nice afternoon and then he made that comment as we left and I thought 'wtf?'

OP posts:
YouNoob · 09/04/2021 18:50

@Lettera

This is sexual harassment, OP. There's no doubt he intends to unsettle and alarm you. Cut him right out of your life, now.

Absolutely this. It's a very deliberate, calculated move on his part. E is showing you who he is. I bet he is getting a real kick out of it. Probably fuels his fantasies too, thinking about you reading his material.

Rae34 · 09/04/2021 18:50

Do you think so @Lettera? I actually think he is completely ignorant to the way he is portraying women. I don't think he realises how bad it is or how he comes across.

@OnWednesdaysWeWearMink I actually don't think he is a bad writer. He is fairly good at writing dialogue (important for his TV scripts) but the attitudes are the problem. A PP (@Beowulfa)said that lazy portrayals of women can be quite lucrative - yes absolutely. I know an author who does fairly well & his portrayal of women used to a bit too 'male gaze'y. But he has got better and I just sort of rolled my eyes at these typically lazy descriptions. What I am talking about here actually gives me the 'ick'.

I am a 'creative' and know many writers and artists etc. I disagree Grin Many of us are actually quite self-conscious about how our work will be received and care about honing our craft. He is the most arrogant of more or less any writer I have met.

OP posts:
OnWednesdaysWeWearMink · 09/04/2021 18:43

PS In my experience almost all creatives are arrogant when it comes to their work so I don’t think that’s necessarily related to his sexism (lol)

OnWednesdaysWeWearMink · 09/04/2021 18:40

Does he show these bad attitudes to women in real life? If not, I think he’s probably just a bad writer.

Lettera · 09/04/2021 18:07

This is sexual harassment, OP. There's no doubt he intends to unsettle and alarm you. Cut him right out of your life, now.

JoodyBlue · 09/04/2021 17:48

The cultural communications out there are harming boys/young men as well as girls/women. I think it is worth trying to reach common understanding. Isn't it always? The accusations levelled at feminists have always been as man haters. Young men have a lot of crap thrown at them and a lot of pressure equally. That is why I think it is worth a conversation, if that doesn't work and he is incapable of understanding the issues then yes ditch the creep, but real feminism is up against a lot these days. Conversations are worth having at every opportunity in my book.

SunsetBeetch · 09/04/2021 17:21

Never trust a male feminist. I'm not even joking.

Regularsizedrudy · 09/04/2021 17:11

Jesus just ditch the creep. Why all this hand wringing?

WhereYouLeftIt · 09/04/2021 17:05

P.S. - yeah, he's probably getting his recent writing ideas from porn. ,boak.

WhereYouLeftIt · 09/04/2021 17:04

"- however he has started sending me scripts he is writing. He is always arrogant about it & never asks for feedback, just tells me to 'enjoy' them."

"Well I am not enjoying them. I was quite shocked to find the portrayal of the female characters quite sexist. The women are promiscuous & unfeeling. The newest script idea sounds like a porn film with a title that reduces women to their body. I told him frankly that I didnt like the idea."

You describe this man as your friend - why don't you just ask him what he's playing at? 'Oi, John, have you had a total personality transplant or have you always been this much of a wanker and I never noticed?' Or words to that effect. You've known him six years. You should be able to be blunt.

But I too am inclined to think this is all deliberate. He's getting off on getting you to read stuff he knows you'll dislike. Look at what you wrote -

"I initially put this down to inexperience. He hasnt had much relationship experience and seems unable to fully understand women."
One word - incel. Angry at women for not being at his beck and call and taking that anger out on a woman who has friendzoned him.

See him for what he is. Not a friend, and really fucking creepy.

JoodyBlue · 09/04/2021 14:43

also want to say that our culture around sexual matters with the easy access to porn has served neither males nor females well in the last decade or so (probably longer), so education is considering female perceptions and needs will probably have been pretty sorely lacking - I hope I am not misunderstood, I am not trying to excuse his behaviour, but sometimes talking helps peopel understand better. Sometimes of course it doesn't in which case, cut him off :)

334bu · 09/04/2021 14:40

Sorry that was supposed to be a random red flag.

334bu · 09/04/2021 14:40

🇲🇦

JoodyBlue · 09/04/2021 14:39

I was listening to this the other day

What I find very interesting is Benjamin Boyce's attitudes towards female power from minute 57 onward. He is very honest in his perception of a situation, he and Jane discuss it and he seems to reach a different understanding. I think honestly, that the only way forward is for men and women to talk to each other. At least initially.

Interested in your view on this interview (it is great btw). But I am making the point that I would at least talk to the bloke about what the issues are that are problematic, because cutting someone off without doing that is a missed opportunity perhaps.

There is a another great point made in this interview and it is that stereotyping sexes and refusing to understand each other's viewpoint serves neither sex well and ultimately the human race needs us to need each other.

TheThermalStair · 09/04/2021 14:33

Just because he's on "your side" in one political struggle, doesn't mean he isn't an arsehole in other ways. I know when you feel like support is rare, trying to get your head round a loyal supporter not being worth having is hard. But imagine if you were say volunteering together for a disability charity, you had a disability and he was sending you unsolicited scripts with really disgusting and over sexualised content about disabled people... you'd see the creep factor then, right?

Thelnebriati · 09/04/2021 14:22

This is how women get conned into having a relationship (and children) with a man who turns out to be an abuser. They are socially adept, and have learned how to mask.

If you want to check this for yourself, just don't read any more of his scripts, don't respond, and don't react. See what happens.
He will escalate. You already know this as you say he keeps on if you don't reply. He's already worked out how many messages he has to send to get you to respond.

KitchenFairy · 09/04/2021 13:13

Oh come on.

He knows exactly what he’s doing by sending you these scripts.

Next time he sends you a script to “enjoy” reply saying “actually, not that you’ve ever been interested in feedback, I haven’t enjoyed them. At all. It’s a pile of misogynist crap. Don’t send me anything else”. And then block him.

SmokedDuck · 09/04/2021 13:07

Yes, just ask him. "Why would a guy interested in women's writes portray women in such a crappy way." See what he says.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/04/2021 12:56

I would ask him if he can explain how he can reconcile his interest in women's rights with this type of writing. The response could be revealing.

Agreed, I'd be a little apprehensive that he is quite invested in the knowledge that he is shocking a friend and that he is exerting some degree of control over your reactions by the social interaction and connection that encourages you to read his work. For me, i's telling that he's not interested in your feedback on the writing.

Beowulfa · 09/04/2021 12:52

Has he always written in this style, or is it a recent development? Who does he think is the target audience? Certain types of genre fiction are full of lazy male/female stereotypes, but bluntly it can be very commercial.

If you're a professional writer, is it normal for your personality to always reflect whatever commission you're on?

I would ask him if he can explain how he can reconcile his interest in women's rights with this type of writing. The response could be revealing.

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