Pro-porn Childline film encouraging kids to google BDSM etc

I don't think pornography as a concept is inherently corrupt or harmful.

As a concept, no. As a reality, clearly. Sex, is sex, is sex. Most people need it. Many enjoy watching it. Whatever. We don't have a right to exploit people for our own pleasure. We should question where it comes from, who made it, why the (mostly) women involved in it are involved in it, where trafficking and child sexual abuse comes into it and we should vote with our feet. In the same way progressives are prepared to do when it comes fair trade, or ethical fashion. They think harder about the real people involved. No one has a human right to a wank at another's expense. And before we get onto the myth of the happy sex worker/porn star - do some googling about porn and trafficking, CSA, what women in the porn industry are actually paid on average (last time I looked it was $30,000 in the US). Above all let's stop pretending to young people that this is harmless fun and let's explain who loses in this game, let's explain that porn seems to get more extreme and violent as we become desensitised to it and that this is driven by our relationship with porn and not our sexual needs.

'Throwing in a small opinion - pornography is not innately unhealthy, but the porn industry is'

Well sure I tend to agree.

In a totally different utopian world, with no patriarchy, no oppression of any groups, no capitalist manipulation of people for profit, no exploitation, no financial pressures etc etc

Then sure. But would porn exist and if so in what form?

And it's a pointless point anyway, because we will never live in that world in our lifetimes. It's a different discussion.

The examples given above about how people have always made these images, are mostly male. Drawing dicks over everything (why???).

The ancient Greeks had an eye for an attractive man but apart from that it's mainly images of women surely?! Male gaze for centuries. And has pornography in our current understanding really existed forever? Anyway that's an aside.

Whether or not there is anything inherently wrong with porn images using actual people is a different conversation.

*The posting pattern is always pretty similar:

Everyone does it
It's completely normal
Loads of people doing it enjoy it, good money
All men do it
If they say they don't they're lying
You're old fashioned/ a prude/ being cheated on/ etc etc*

And also

"But your children have access to the internet so will learn it whether you like it or not"

If ever there was an argument for

The online harms bill
Tighter restrictions on what it available on the internet (and maybe not giving the contract to MindGeek, makers of PornHub)
Using parental controls
Keeping you kids away from computers
Keeping your kids away from other kids with computers, parents who think porn if fun
Keeping your kids way from kids who use their phones to watch porn in the playground
Keeping your kids away from head teachers, teachers, external PSHE/RSE providers who think porn is fun
Keeping your kids away from ANYONE who think "porn is normal, fun and everybody watches it so why don't you?"

...with the last one being what is called peer pressure.

This thread is an education in the true sense of how exposure can warp your thinking.

Not that I was a fan but in the pattern of Tony Blair

Safeguarding
Safeguarding
Safeguarding

I have changed my opinion and have been faring ok without it. It is a lazy option, not a right. Humans are drawn to erotic images, and visually stimulated yes, that is not inherently bad, but there is no way of supplying images of real people in a non exploitative way.

(To my knowledge) the word "pornography" also makes reference to written erotica, as a side note. I agree in this current socio-economic climate that it is increasingly difficult to ethically source (and I imagine produce) pornography. And I also agree that we would have to make some massive changes to many aspects of Western culture with sex based rights and capitalism being a few, but I do believe it's possible. I don't think pornography as a concept is inherently corrupt or harmful.

Oh sorry that was an attettempt at a quote responding to cabletoss.

That was my opinion until very recently (as an ex user of pornography). I have changed my opinion and have been faring ok without it. It is a lazy option, not a right. Humans are drawn to erotic images, and visually stimulated yes, that is not inherently bad, but there is no way of supplying images of real people in a non exploitative way.

For under 18s? Maybe you have the evidence I asked other posters for? Studies that show it has positive benefits for under 18s to consume porn. That is the sole topic of this thread. Under 18 consumption of porn.

I think porn for the under 18s would not be as harmful if it were irrespective to the porn industry (for example, no exploitation of women, no violence, no abuse). Whether we should be glorifying it or recommending it, I would say no, but I also think healthy experimentation is an important stage of growing up - I say this in relation to "ethical" pornography rather than the mass-produced violent pornography that comes from the porn industry.

That's not to say porn can automatically exist in the modern era in a healthy way, because it would require equal treatment of women and an extreme cultural shift because of the pervading impact of the porn industry

That I agree with.

How do you separate them?

If you mean that genuinely, Rabbit, for me the difference is the fact that pornography is (on some level) innate whereas the porn industry is an insidious abuse of the physical reaction humans have when they see sexual stimuli. E.g. cavemen were drawing men with big willies on walls because it excited them, whereas the routine abuse and exploitation involved in the porn industry is a disgusting byproduct of people desiring money. I think that's how feminist / ethical porn can be justified. That's not to say porn can automatically exist in the modern era in a healthy way, because it would require equal treatment of women and an extreme cultural shift because of the pervading impact of the porn industry, but the two aren't necessarily the same thing. Just semantics, I guess!

His message went staight past me apart from his constant irritating blah blah

Jeez just watched that vid from Tom Scott

His chat is so bad. Fast fast fast. Blah blah. Done my head in

Why does he have a backdrop of guns and rifles ?

Child pornography is the term used by mainstream media so it is fine to use.

The BBC also referred to "child prostitutes"
On the Breakfast programme. Not victims of sex trafficking. Child prostitutes. They received a lot of complaints on that one.

Mainstream media might report on a story where a teacher has an 'underage lover'.

Doesn't make it ok though does it? For one it's not accurate.

But surely this is one which, as soon as it's pointed out how inappropriate it is, no decent person would want to defend or continue using.

No decent person indeed.

Throwing in a small opinion - pornography is not innately unhealthy, but the porn industry is. Just wanted to make that distinction because I've read some people conflate the two and I don't agree with that.

For under 18s?

Maybe you have the evidence I asked other posters for? Studies that show it has positive benefits for under 18s to consume porn.

That is the sole topic of this thread. Under 18 consumption of porn.

That was a flippant apology, but I think it highlights the hypocrisy to some small degree.

Fashion isn't innately unhealthy, but exploiting poor people to create it is. There are plenty of Pomo progressives eschewing "fast fashion". Why isn't it obvious that we should do the same with porn?

What group of people who are dealing on a daily basis with children, some of whom are CSA victims, use it to discuss CSA using the term ‘porn’ which they leave a lasting message of ‘its fun and fine’ despite needing to focus on the negative aspects of porn? (Imagine telling a child or a teen that alcohol was fun and fine and thinking ‘excellent job done. Because alcohol can be given to children in some instances that are ‘legal’. I say this because it is something this video states, watching porn is not illegal for under 18s and is fine in moderation....

And this is a group of people who should be the leaders in child safeguarding?

And they are normalizing the use of that terminology? Ffs.

Throwing in a small opinion - pornography is not innately unhealthy, but the porn industry is. Just wanted to make that distinction because I've read some people conflate the two and I don't agree with that.

How do you separate them?

Found the video I was referencing!

Throwing in a small opinion - pornography is not innately unhealthy, but the porn industry is. Just wanted to make that distinction because I've read some people conflate the two and I don't agree with that.

However, I agree that teaching young viewers about different genres of porn is too much, on top of glossing over the "dark side" - I think Tom (the creator) has mentioned his regrets about these videos? If I remember correctly he said he was proud of the videos in his sex series, but he stated he shouldn't have put them on his main platform as his viewbase is predominantly children.

'why many of those who work with young people use it as its the most common term to them.'

And again.. What age?

Childline is for all under 19. And the ads etc aim at a fairly young audience.

It is wrong to assume that all children know that grown ups make films of children being raped, and share them on the internet for other grown ups to masturbate over.

Some children will not have heard of this before and it's pretty upsetting info.
Some children may know only too well that some grown ups like raping children and also find it upsetting to be discussed.

These things should be approached from the perspective of the child.

And more relevant threads on some of the dodgy input into child sex education:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3700556-Safeguarding-in-UK-Schools-new-Statutory-Guidance-existing-classroom-programme-teaching-6yr-olds-to-masturbate

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3701564-Anal-sex-for-13-year-olds-Warwickshire-again

Why would anyone ever try to normalise the term 'child porn'? WTF?!

No asugarr

Stop this chat about child porn

You should not be teaching this to anyone

You should be sacked if you ever said this to any child you teach

It’s child sexual abuse

What is wrong with you ?

Try and be better and look at this has a chance to be educated instead of hurting children who may be in your class and been abused and just be told they are taking part in child porn

Shocking and very disengeous