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Original poster

Totally ridiculous and really damaging

35 replies

jennytogether · 05/04/2021 08:26

I was reading an interview with Minnie Driver in the guardian yesterday where she describes having to be dug a hole to stand in to kiss her on screen love interest so that he is taller than her. And it struck me that this is so totally ridiculous...

As a woman who is 5ft11, and who was 5ft11 aged 13, I ‘knew’ that being tall was not feminine or attractive, (without being super skinny supermodel territory) and I guess I’m working out that it was because it wasn’t allowed to be visible. I can’t believe that directors would go to this much effort without critically thinking, perhaps our audience is ready for a taller woman and shorter man? Perhaps they are intelligent enough to understand that love between this type of couple is possible!!

It makes me annoyed that something so superficial is so standardised. Can anyone think of any films where the male lead is shorter than the female? Or is still no one daring to think this obstacle could be overcome?

It makes me angry that I’m realising that so much of my insecurity probably stems from something as ridiculous as this. This must go for shorter men too.

Totally ridiculous and really damaging
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QuentinWinters · 07/04/2021 14:10

Anyway, back on topic, there are lots where the leading man is clearly smaller than the leading lady but then camera trickery to disguise it.
Any film with Tom Cruise or Martin Freeman for example
I think the only one I can think of where it's part of the film are Bob Hoskins and Cher in Mermaids

QuentinWinters · 07/04/2021 14:07

Also in my opinion in the book version Scarlett is a bit of a feminist icon, that side of her is watered down in the film.

QuentinWinters · 07/04/2021 13:59

Rhett Butler rapes Scarlett O'Hara because he's jealous, and...she falls in love with him.
I never viewed that scene as rape....i always thought he took her to bed after a long gap and she wanted him to because she decided she loved him after realising Ashley was a pillock...
Mind you have not read the book or watched the film in many years...

Notoriouslynotnotious · 07/04/2021 11:59

Yep Datum Hollywood has a lot to answer for normalising abuse of women in relationships.

Datun · 07/04/2021 10:23

It was such a vile premise for a happily ever after and it is only the tip of the iceberg as to how Hollywood tries to romanticise deeply deeply dysfunctional men.

Rhett Butler rapes Scarlett O'Hara because he's jealous, and...she falls in love with him.

A film billed as one of the most 'romantic' of all time.

GNCQ · 07/04/2021 09:39

@ArabellaScott

High heels were invented (well, popularised) to boost the ego of a man who thought he should be taller.
It's true, they were invented for men. High heels were invented for horse riding. Men would wear them because women weren't out on the horse. But then they just got "fashionable" for men.

Tom Cruise has to wear special shoes that have a hidden platform because of his shortness.

Notoriouslynotnotious · 07/04/2021 08:54

I’d settle for Hollywood not being so overtly abusive of women in their themes. I proper gagged at a recent Netflix movie with Jennifer Anniston where she decides to have a baby alone and some deeply dysfunctional constantly negging male friend swoops in and swoops his sperm for the sperm donors. Instead of ending up in jail for his disgusting deception he ends up married to Jennifer in the end. It was such a vile premise for a happily ever after and it is only the tip of the iceberg as to how Hollywood tries to romanticise deeply deeply dysfunctional men.

ATailofTwoKitties · 07/04/2021 08:41

My son and daughter are both 5ft8.

They are a similar enough shape that they can fit in each other’s clothes (jeans an t-shirts and jackets, I mean).

They are both embarrassed about their heights but in opposite directions Confused.

OccultGnuAsWell · 07/04/2021 08:01

I've just had a flash back to my first wedding in 1981 .

I was four inches taller than the groom. In some shots the wedding photographer asked me to sag at the knees in order that we appeared more proportionate. And I bloody did as he asked.

jennytogether I recognise what you say about being tall is not considered feminine or attractive. I'm 5'10 and have always understood that this was the way it is but why?! Where does the idea come from and how was it transmitted so completely into my understanding by mid-teens?

ArabellaScott · 05/04/2021 20:26

I think the very first instances were mounted horseback soldiers in ?Persia/Iran? yes, but heels worn as a status symbol to increase the standing (ta-boom tish) of the wearer was around 1700 French court, as far as I recall.

Tibtom · 05/04/2021 20:24

@ArabellaScott

High heels were invented (well, popularised) to boost the ego of a man who thought he should be taller.
Not entirely true. The heels were to enable men to stand up in saddles in order to fight. Though I guess they then discovered the advantages of higher heels.
AvocadoBathroom · 05/04/2021 13:39

I had a boyfriend who was a bit shorter than me and people would take the piss out of us. Made me so angry.

ArabellaScott · 05/04/2021 13:19

High heels were invented (well, popularised) to boost the ego of a man who thought he should be taller.

Imsosorryalan75 · 05/04/2021 13:14

Off topic but I googled this and she was in a film with Tom Cruise called 'Dont call my Booker!' Or something. He is notoriously divaish when it comes to his height so I wondered if she was referring to him. Hmm

Original poster
jennytogether · 05/04/2021 13:11

@EveWasReframed amazing how so much starts with an insecure male ego.

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jennytogether · 05/04/2021 13:10

@manatsu hunger games! Yes! Actually I guess her precinct boyfriend/friend was the typical, then she subverted it with Peeter (or whatever his name was). It was unlikely. I liked that.

Amazing how many stunning actresses are paired with alright men too. Male Hollywood writers fantasies probably.

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EveWasReframed · 05/04/2021 13:09

Apparently the Hollywood star Alan Ladd stood on a lot of boxes or the female leads were put in trenches, and it all became normalised from there.

The age thing even permeates British soaps. In Eastenders, the Suki actor is only 10 years older in RL than the actor playing her eldest son.

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jennytogether · 05/04/2021 13:06

@toffeebutterpopcorn only because every other actress has to have their chin in the sky too! What about the poor double chinned male actors... banished for decades!

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Deliriumoftheendless · 05/04/2021 13:05

[quote jennytogether]@OneEpisode say what???! God.

Any good examples of films that fight these stereotypes? I feel the need to buy some to put my money where my politics are!![/quote]
Harold and Maude.

Not the height thing though 🤣

manatsu · 05/04/2021 13:00

I mean I see a lot of real life couples where the woman is taller.

manatsu · 05/04/2021 12:59

Can anyone think of any films where the male lead is shorter than the female?

Hmm...The Hunger Games? Jack Black films where he has a romance? I actually see a lot of couples recently where the man is the same height or shorter than the women. Nearly always younger couples, teens to thirties. I think the audience is ready to see a film with a taller woman, shorter man couple, though Hollywood would doubtless make that the entire focus of the film in a 'can you believe it??' sort of way.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 05/04/2021 12:57

[quote jennytogether]@toffeebutterpopcorn have a double chin and snog the one you love! That’s my motto![/quote]
I suspect if I was a Hollywood starlet that’s the last thing I’d want the camera to see!

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jennytogether · 05/04/2021 12:56

@ArabellaScott I think I was just surprised at the actual effort to reinforce the non-reality, when I think most people would enjoy a bit more representation? Or maybe I’m wrong and Hollywood is about fantasy... and we sacrifice feeling normal in our everyday lives for the pay off of a little glimpse of fantasy in films!!

I thought it was also interesting that Minnie drivers solution to not standing in a muddy hole was to have them sitting down or something... like not to change the scene by maybe accepting that they’d be similar heights? And that showed me how entrenched it is!

Think I just feel a bit conned and I’m wondering how many scenes I remember (where I also remember feeling large and unfeminine) the actress was actually stood in a hole. I’m going to analyse the walking scenes much more carefully now!

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jennytogether · 05/04/2021 12:52

@toffeebutterpopcorn have a double chin and snog the one you love! That’s my motto!

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ArabellaScott · 05/04/2021 12:15

Hm. It's perpetuating the norm, I suppose. The ... oh, god, I can't ever do mean/median/average, but the average male is taller than the average female, so its become coded that a taller male is more manly and a smaller woman is more feminine.

Yes, it's bollocks, OP. And leads to difficulties for men and women. I've been utterly astounded at the things people will say to taller women, and the things they will say to shorter men (pats on head, for example).