Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Stop mixing up sex and gender GPs told

165 replies

flyingbuttress43 · 03/04/2021 14:34

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/02/doctors-must-stop-mixing-sex-gender-patients-undergoing-wrong/

Doctors have been told to stop mixing up sex and gender because it can end up with people getting the wrong treatment.

Senior medical researchers led by the University of St Andrews said there was clear evidence that biological sex and gender were both powerful risk factors for "virtually every disease and affect every organ."

The article is behind a pay wall, so here are some salient points...

Sex differences in drug metabolism were well recognised;
Gender significantly affected how a person engaged with treatment;
One GP, commenting on the article on the BMJ website said she spent hours a week ensuring the right people were called for cervical smears;
NHS systems do not allow for sex and gender to be recorded separately;
Sex and gender are not synonymous.

"Dr Margaret McCartney of the School of Medicine at St Andrews, said: "There are many instances of sex and gender being confused by the research community and society more broadly. Unless we identify and count categories correctly, we will end up with errors which serves all populations poorly."

All so obvious to us on Feminism Chat, but good to see push back
on this sex/gender mixup from the research community.

OP posts:
Chersfrozenface · 03/04/2021 19:33

@R0wantrees

To go back to @YouSetTheTone's question regarding the use / misuse of "Male To Female transition", perhaps '‘...transitions from a male person to one who has the appearance of some secondary sexual characteristics of a female person'.

What has transitioned? Many people have cosmetic surgery.

What is your suggestion, then, for a replacement for the term "Male to Female transition" / "Female to Male transition"?

Because it's used a lot.

Jaxhog · 03/04/2021 19:28

@PaleBlueMoonlight

My worry is that the words woman and man would be deemed appropriate for the gender category, with female/male for the sex category. This would consolidate the appropriation of the word woman to mean feelings/stereotypes, losing the specific words we need to describe sex as it relates to humans.
Sadly true. But I'd rather this than that proper definition of sex difference disappears altogether. Depressing isn't it.
R0wantrees · 03/04/2021 19:24

NHS records should allow Doctors to give appropriate medical treatment
even if the patient is unconscious

  • sex
  • blood type
  • disease history
  • surgical history

and current medication.

ListeningQuietly · 03/04/2021 19:21

NHS records should allow Doctors to give appropriate medical treatment
even if the patient is unconscious

  • sex
  • blood type
  • disease history
  • surgical history
R0wantrees · 03/04/2021 19:20

To go back to @YouSetTheTone's question regarding the use / misuse of "Male To Female transition", perhaps '‘...transitions from a male person to one who has the appearance of some secondary sexual characteristics of a female person'.

What has transitioned? Many people have cosmetic surgery.

R0wantrees · 03/04/2021 19:18

Of course you shouldn't! Its completely unacceptable that patients should need to tell their doctor that they have not changed sex in order that their NHS record is accurate and in order they receive optimum healthcare.

Chersfrozenface · 03/04/2021 19:17

@R0wantrees

None of those are female sex characteristics.

Its cosmetic surgery.

To go back to @YouSetTheTone's question regarding the use / misuse of "Male To Female transition", perhaps '‘...transitions from a male person to one who has the appearance of some secondary sexual characteristics of a female person'.
HamsterV2 · 03/04/2021 19:09

@R0wantrees

That's the infuriating and worrying thing. It's a SEX box. I have actually told one Dr that I can't actually change sex and was stared at as if I'd gone mad.

HamsterV2 You'll have to save a copy of the BMJ article to show the next confused doctor!

I think you're right, but I shouldn't HAVE to Confused
R0wantrees · 03/04/2021 19:05

None of those are female sex characteristics.

Its cosmetic surgery.

Chersfrozenface · 03/04/2021 19:04

@R0wantrees

‘...transitions from a male person to one who has secondary sex characteristics of a female person’ ?

Male people do not/cannot acquire female secondary sex characteristics. Female sex characteristics all have reproductive function.

They can have breast implants, body/facial hair removal and facial remodelling.

In that way they can acquire some of the visible secondary sexual characteristics of females.

I say "acquire" as I'm pretty sure using a verb like "mimic" would get me banned. Would I be OK with "acquire the appearance of"?

R0wantrees · 03/04/2021 18:59

That's the infuriating and worrying thing. It's a SEX box. I have actually told one Dr that I can't actually change sex and was stared at as if I'd gone mad.

HamsterV2 You'll have to save a copy of the BMJ article to show the next confused doctor!

R0wantrees · 03/04/2021 18:57

‘...transitions from a male person to one who has secondary sex characteristics of a female person’ ?

Male people do not/cannot acquire female secondary sex characteristics. Female sex characteristics all have reproductive function.

HamsterV2 · 03/04/2021 18:57

Chersfrozenface

That's the infuriating and worrying thing. It's a SEX box. I have actually told one Dr that I can't actually change sex and was stared at as if I'd gone mad.

ArabellaScott · 03/04/2021 18:54

NHS systems do not allow for sex and gender to be recorded separately;

I thought they did, I seem to recall there being provision made for precisely this - but it hasn't been used?

Chersfrozenface · 03/04/2021 18:53

@HamsterV2

I have this problem every time I need blood tests or lab tests done at my GP surgery. They automatically put "F" in the sex box and give me weird looks when I remind them that just because I'm transitioned/post-op my sex is STILL male.

It's happened at my local hospital too. I don't care about my feelings - I care about any medical necessities being carried out PROPERLY.

The whole medical establishment has been captured by the "no hurty the gender feelz" brigade. It's infuriating.

Is it a "sex" box? Or a "gender" box?
YouSetTheTone · 03/04/2021 18:47

@R0wantrees

Male to female transition is a term used very commonly. See, for instance, the description of the film on the BBC recently: "Filmed over five years, we follow Lily Jones, 20, as she transitions from male to female..

Indeed, doctors and the BBC have a responsibility to those people who believe that sex change is possible. It is not.

I had not really thought about it like that. It’s true. What should -more accurately - the phrasing be? ‘...transitions from a male person to one who has secondary sex characteristics of a female person’ ?
HamsterV2 · 03/04/2021 18:44

I have this problem every time I need blood tests or lab tests done at my GP surgery. They automatically put "F" in the sex box and give me weird looks when I remind them that just because I'm transitioned/post-op my sex is STILL male.

It's happened at my local hospital too. I don't care about my feelings - I care about any medical necessities being carried out PROPERLY.

The whole medical establishment has been captured by the "no hurty the gender feelz" brigade. It's infuriating.

R0wantrees · 03/04/2021 18:38

Hm. Try saying that in public.

That's exactly what the BMJ article reported widely in the MSM is doing and highlighting that the risk is to patients when HCPs collude.

Scotsman 'Doctors must learn to distinguish between sex and gender, top Scottish medics warn
Doctors confusing sex and gender are putting patients’ treatment at risk, a group of senior medical researchers has warned.'

www.scotsman.com/health/doctors-must-learn-to-distinguish-between-sex-and-gender-top-scottish-medics-warn-3187822

Chersfrozenface · 03/04/2021 18:27

Indeed, doctors and the BBC have a responsibility to those people who believe that sex change is possible. It is not.

Hm. Try saying that in public.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 03/04/2021 18:26

I have noticed that in those surveys students get their friends and family to complete for University assignments/projects, they always just ask for your Gender and not your Sex.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 03/04/2021 18:24

Well done @ St Andrew's University for pointing this out. Nice to know not all UK Universities are totally captured.

Chersfrozenface · 03/04/2021 18:20

@Helleofabore

Then there will be a list of organs (uterus, cervix, ovaries, breasts, penis, testicles, prostate etc) and an individual ticks whether they have them or not.

Right.... and when it comes to a person being honest about whether they have a vagina or not, will those people have a box for ‘neo-vagina’ so they can get the specialized cars they personally need?

And if they have no penis, but have ticked vagina instead of neo-vagina, and ticked breasts etc they still will be at huge risk because it could be easily read as a woman with a hysterectomy.

The issues with ticking organs is ridiculous. Stick to male or female and then gender to avoid situations like missed pregnancies and missed kidney issues as has happened recently.

Also, there is research which shows that health is affected not just by the presence or absence of particular organs or the effect of hormones, but also by chromosomes. It goes right down to the cellular level.
R0wantrees · 03/04/2021 18:19

Male to female transition is a term used very commonly. See, for instance, the description of the film on the BBC recently: "Filmed over five years, we follow Lily Jones, 20, as she transitions from male to female..

Indeed, doctors and the BBC have a responsibility to those people who believe that sex change is possible. It is not.

Chersfrozenface · 03/04/2021 18:16

Male and female refer to sex not gender identity.

Male to female transition is a term used very commonly. See, for instance, the description of the film on the BBC recently: "Filmed over five years, we follow Lily Jones, 20, as she transitions from male to female..."

Helleofabore · 03/04/2021 18:08

Then there will be a list of organs (uterus, cervix, ovaries, breasts, penis, testicles, prostate etc) and an individual ticks whether they have them or not.

Right.... and when it comes to a person being honest about whether they have a vagina or not, will those people have a box for ‘neo-vagina’ so they can get the specialized cars they personally need?

And if they have no penis, but have ticked vagina instead of neo-vagina, and ticked breasts etc they still will be at huge risk because it could be easily read as a woman with a hysterectomy.

The issues with ticking organs is ridiculous. Stick to male or female and then gender to avoid situations like missed pregnancies and missed kidney issues as has happened recently.

Swipe left for the next trending thread