Stop mixing up sex and gender GPs told

If (medically transitioned) trans people can’t use the spaces for the sex they identify as like other people can then they don’t have equal rights.

Do you think adults should be able to be on children's wards too? People do not have the right to be in spaces they 'identify' with only spaces that they are.

Nor is it the spaces themselves that matter - it is the other people in that space that do. So you are suggesting that transwomen (ie males) should be able to be in spaces alongside women if they choose, but women are not allowed to choose to be in spaces free of males. You are saying single sex spaces are not allowed.

Spot op @R0wantrees.

That is straight to the point, and says it as it is.
"female private spaces" must be respected by all biological males.
Having estrogen, castration and "self ID" as female does not constitute a biological sex change.
These "trans women" have equal human rights, BUT that right does not equate to undermining women's rights for female only spaces, nor female only sports.

Even as an intersex person, who has overwhelming female biological issues, I would not undermine those basic rights, I respect women's rights to private spaces, I have adapted over 40 decades.

Sadly some "trans women" do not respect those simple rights, and in some cases, they demand special treatment, some are shocking and blatantly against common decency and respect for women. They even call women who protect women's rights "T.E.R.F.S"....or transphobes, which i am often labelled. They should understand women's concerns and respect the rights of women, and adapt their lives approprialty. It is the least they can do?

No of course not. But medically diagnosed trans women undergoing treatment are. In most cases.

'Transwoman' is not a medical diagnosis and use of female single sex spaces is not a prescription for alleviation of male's distress.

Women's single sex spaces and services are not therapeutic tools for boys and men distressed by their sex.

So, any male who 'identifies' as a woman is entitled to use women's single sex spaces?

No of course not. But medically diagnosed trans women undergoing treatment are. In most cases.

R0wan will know that I've done a 180 on this
My friend who had full surgery at 18-20 is to all external appearances
female
and I support her right to use the toilets that match her appearance
BUT
she was born male
she is being monitored for prostate issues
the NHS must be accurate

[quote DadJoke]The NHS stores this data.

It's the "gender identity same as birth indicator." It allows people to be respected as their gender, while making sure people get the medical treatment they need. It's important, but none of anyone's business apart from the patient and the medical professionals who treat them.

datadictionary.nhs.uk/attributes/gender_identity_same_at_birth_indicator.html[/quote]
I think you should read the thread.

The NHS doesn't store this data. That's what the whole thread has been discussing. With referenced evidence and cited links. We've had several HCPs discuss the problems caused by the NHS not storing this data. Have you not read any of the thread?

If (medically transitioned) trans people can’t use the spaces for the sex they identify as like other people can then they don’t have equal rights.

So, any male who 'identifies' as a woman is entitled to use women's single sex spaces?

The NHS stores this data.

It's the "gender identity same as birth indicator." It allows people to be respected as their gender, while making sure people get the medical treatment they need. It's important, but none of anyone's business apart from the patient and the medical professionals who treat them.

datadictionary.nhs.uk/attributes/gender_identity_same_at_birth_indicator.html

Thanks @R0wantrees.

Basically identifying as a biological sex does not magically make a person change their biological sex.

We all have rights to use the facilities of the biological sex which we belong. How simple is this?

It’s no more temporary than any other lifelong medication.

You misunderstand.

There are many circumstances when patients take a drug/s which temporarily elevates/depresses a blood marker be that prescribed or purchased. means that when the drug is not taken and after sufficient time to have left the blood stream the underlying blood marker levels would return to their underlying natural state. The drug/s are the specific cause of the elevation/depression.

This is why HCPs require age, sex, current medication details in order to diagnose and treat patients safely.

And that’s fine where someone needs to know because there are treatment implications. You don’t need to know if you’re taking a blood sample, booking in an appointment or bandaging a knee.

HCP do indeed need to know age, sex and current medication as well as allergies when carrying out what might seem to non HCPs basic / routine tasks.

If single sex facilities, sports etc, are made open on the basis of identity, then women no longer have sex-based rights.

There are many reasons why male patients may have higher than normal range oestrogen in their blood, some of which are indicative of serious health issues.

There are many circumstances when patients take a drug/s which temporarily elevates/depresses a blood marker be that prescribed or purchased.

A trans woman’s oestrogen level, or trans man’s testosterone level is not the result of a serious health issue (other than gender dysphoria) and neither is it an incidental elevation. It is the goal of treatment.

It’s no more temporary than any other lifelong medication.

This is why HCPs require age, sex, current medication details in order to diagnose and treat patients safely.

And that’s fine where someone needs to know because there are treatment implications. You don’t need to know if you’re taking a blood sample, booking in an appointment or bandaging a knee.

If (medically transitioned) trans people can’t use the spaces for the sex they identify as like other people can then they don’t have equal rights.

There is no medical 'transition' procedure by which a person's sex changes.
Just as one cannot identify into having a change of DOB, age like sex is matter of fact.

ALL have equal rights.

If (medically transitioned) trans people can’t use the spaces for the sex they identify as like other people can then they don’t have equal rights.

Although facts are facts from Nome to Rome, we find that some try to twist perception... but right minded people know that reality won't budge.

I would feel it is correct use of the term delusion, to state that someone who believes in the impossible, is delusional.

It is indeed.
Delusions are beliefs that are demonstrably not true.

So Alex very lucidly explaining the reality of their life
is delusion?

Not at all. I am at a loss as to how you might conclude that.
The context that I have provided is that which Alex's deleted post was part of.

So Alex very lucidly explaining the reality of their life
is delusion?
Really?

I have been advised on previous post had used term of delusion, ...so I accept that may offend some.

The context of the thread being the potential serious harms to patients when gender and sex is conflated in NHS healthcare. That some patients might believe they had actually changed sex had been referred to additionally this was identified as a significant risk in the NHS 2009 assessment of data architecture.

Delusions are beliefs that are demonstrably not true.

I have been advised on previous post had used term of delusion, ...so I accept that may offend some.

I live as male, but any terminology is fine, "intersex" is fairly ok... words and terminology cannot offend anyone!

I'm not sure what guideline Alex broke - but I hope the mods are sensitive of 'context' when assessing what a person with a VSD has to say (not sure what your preferred terminology is, Alex).

reposting my comment from 11:57:35:

The bigger picture concerns are that NHS Safeguarding and Child Protection frameworks have been compromised in multiple areas on the basis of pressure from politicians, TRA lobby groups and idealogues. This has potentially catastrophic impacts for the welfare of all patients.