Stop mixing up sex and gender GPs told

I honesttly see no need for 'gender' to be mentioned at all on medical records. Especially given its known many conflate the two (often purpsely) despite knowing they are different things. I don't really see what benefits 'genderqueer demigirl' being added to some males records would do in reality.

I think for transsexual people, their medical records would..well show they are transsexual, so no gender needed there

And those who are trans but want to change pronouns for whatever reason, an addition could surely be made, somewhere, simply stating 'X prefers to be referred to as she/he/them'

Adding gender as an option on the system would surely require 1000+ options to be there, with more added daily.

It was interesting to read the BMJ article because when I politely queried the process of changing name, nhs number with the practice manager where I work, I was basically accused of being a dreadful transphobic bigot!
I'd asked, in all innocence if patient xx would still be called for smears and if the blood result parameters would still be correct once this has been done, because I'd noticed that the system didn't appear to facilitate a way of allowing their sex to be correctly recorded. One a person's title is changed from 'Miss' to 'Mr' or vice versa, it sets off a whole process of change.
I got snapped at and told that this is how it works and that's that.
Fair enough in a small gp practice where the longstanding clinicians know most of the patients (certainly who is transgender), but if they or the patient move on, it could certainly lead to adverse clinical outcomes for the transgender patient.
I actually found it really quite concerning but then I'm not clinical so what do I know?🙄

One of my friends is a medical student and he was doing a training round on the maternity ward. He met a pregnant patient who was in pain and had some other worrying symptoms. When he met with his supervisor she asked him to give a history and he started by saying “she was a pregnant female patient...” The supervisor snapped and interrupted him and said that he was wrong to assume the patients gender - did he ask? The patient might have been a trans man. So he just said “ok” and continued his report. But when he told me I was really shocked and I told him he did the right thing in correctly sexing the patient. And then it further occurred to me that in a maternity ward it’s even more important to correctly sex patients because abdominal pain in a woman means something very different from pain in a man. The doctor also didn’t seem to grasp that “female” was a sex term, not a gendered term. My friend pointed out that in his report he only sexed the patient and didn’t use gender. Also can you imagine being a heavily pregnant woman, worried and in pain and the doctor asks you what gender you are ?

According to a BMJ editorial of March this year,

"The Royal College of General Practitioners already recommends that sex and gender are recorded separately in medical records, but standard NHS systems do not allow for this. The NHS number—a lifelong identifier given at birth—codes people by biological sex in Scotland (odd numbers for male, even numbers for female). This drives sex specific automated screening invitations (cervical, breast, and aortic aneurysm) and laboratory reference ranges. The administrative process of changing NHS numbers, which many trans and non-binary people choose, effectively makes the NHS number a gender marker, not a sex marker. This may result in relevant information about biological sex being unavailable to healthcare practitioners, researchers, and administrators."

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n735

So the 2009 guidance referred to in Anne Harper-Wright's article on Medium isn't being followed. A letter from Maya Forstater in response to the editorial points this out, & also calls for controls on disclosure of sex to protect the privacy of transgender patients:

"Accurate information on everybody's sex should be held in their NHS record but it should only be disclosed or displayed when it is needed."

"Greater clarity about definitions, privacy, confidentiality and data protection would allow people to keep their sex private in situations where it is no one else's business but maintain the integrity of medical records."

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n735/rr-0

I have lots if hard here waiting patiently to be eaten.

It's the crux of the matter, I feel. But nobody who says TWAW ever answers it.

and we know the reality, they are biological males, who actually believe they are entitled to become biological women.
it is a form a narcissism. Many are self obsessed, women's rights are secondary. They do show full signs of authgynephilia,

No one knows what it feels like to be anything, BUT we all know what it is like to be in our own bodies, and we adapt.

I do not know what it is like to be female, no more than any woman does, I do not "feel" like a woman, nor do i feel like a "man"... i can only feel like me.

I have lived as both, and coped. Sadly I sense trans women have created an fixation, which could be helped, with help. It becomes an all absorbing fixation, and being "accepted" as a woman, is their goal, many have a fetish, they remain biologically male.

Women have a basic right to have private spaces away from men, be it changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, refuges sports,.. this is nothing new, has been part of civil society for over 3,000 years.

Biology has not changed, sadly the liberal left is appeasing this. George Soros is more than happy to fund trans ideology, he wants to undermine western culture. We have to be aware.

Yes, I realised that's what you meant, East. A 'sexual health' clinic definitely needs to know your sex and might also need to know sexuality and gender I suppose. Having services provided by a specific ObGyn is one of the few instances (maybe the only one?) where the sex question would be redundant.

If anyone would like to answer me this, I'd really love an answer:

Why does the transwoman's desire to use women's spaces
override the woman's desire to have spaces free from males?

Why does the transwoman's desire
override the woman's desire?

Where I am the contraceptive services are dealt with by a separate sexual health clinic rather than your GP.

When I lived in the US, the norm seemed to be to go to an obgyn for contraception and smears so it was automatically a single sex service which seemed pretty sensible.

Where I am the contraceptive services are dealt with by a separate sexual health clinic rather than your GP.
I was surprised when I filled out the initial forms there to find that the only option was gender. Surely for something like sexual health you need to know what sex organ you have, not how you feel.

I think part of the problem is the absolutely fucking unbelievably labyrinthine and unnecessary bureaucracy the NHS seems to revel in. I think it could be sunk by that alone, to be honest.

Is it beyond the wit of the health service to introduce specific flags for the very few routine screening tests available? Do women who've had double mastectomies still get called for mammograms?

Unfortunately, those female patients who request their GP change their patient record to 'male' are automatically removed from the centrally administered cervical cancer screening service.

One of many reasons why they should not be able to change their sex marker.

Thanks r0, I thought I had it cracked at my previous GP, then changed practices and my cervix somehow reappeared again. I might have the energy to try again soon!

I've been through the process myself and sympathise.

In UK administration of cervical screening is managed centrally. The GP practice needs to action removal of a woman's name from their database.

Unfortunately, those female patients who request their GP change their patient record to 'male' are automatically removed from the centrally administered cervical cancer screening service.

The responsibility is then placed on patients to remember to arrange their own regular cervical screening and is inevitably likely to increase the risk of cervical cancer developing beyond the early stages when it is more likely curative.

Thanks r0, I thought I had it cracked at my previous GP, then changed practices and my cervix somehow reappeared again. I might have the energy to try again soon!

Sophoclesthefox Its a very common issue for women who have had total hysterectomies often discussed on women's cancer support boards. Some being very distressed at receiving the letter whilst they are still recovering from the impact of their cancer diagnosis and treatment.
In UK administration of cervical screening is managed centrally. The GP practice needs to action removal of a woman's name from their database.
A phone call to the practice manager is often the most effective way to ensure this is done.

Such an interesting thread, thanks in particular to hamster and alex.

I can’t persuade the GP to stop calling me for cervical smears on my non existent cervix. I wouldn’t endorse a system reliant on a tick list of organs/physical attributes you may or may not have, that’s introducing unnecessary complexity in a system that already struggles with routine deviations from the norm.

Regulations introduced by the coalition government in 2010 compelled hospital trusts to report their figures for mixed-ward occupation, then fined them £250 per night for breaches. “We want to see the end of mixed-sex wards,” Nick Clegg said. “Everybody knows this has got to end.” As recently as his 2015 conference speech, a key part of Hunt’s claims to representing “the party of the NHS” was the unqualified triumph: “mixed sex wards eliminated”.

It is important to reconsider these statements by Jeremy Hunt and Nick Cleg in light of Anne Harper-Wright's article.
medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

As OP Barracker wrote in 2018 when the article above was published,

"We've been lied to about 'Single SEX' wards since 2010

They were ALWAYS based upon 'gender'.
The evidence is in NHS documents from 2010.
And the Department of Health were told, by the NHS team, not to tell people wards were segregated by sex, because they knew the policy was based on gender.

But the DOH purposefully used the word sex to the public instead.

We've been deliberately misled.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3396859-Weve-been-lied-to-about-Single-SEX-wards-since-2010

So, Anovenaway - ' medically diagnosed trans women undergoing treatment are' (entitled to use female spaces)

We'll leave the 'treatment' part aside, because as far as I know there is no 'treatment' required to become a transwoman.

What if women object? Why does the transwoman's desire to use female space override the woman's desire to retain a single sex space?

Why does the transwoman's desire
override the woman's desire?

Guardian July 2017
'Mixed-sex wards endanger and humiliate women'
Catherine Bennett
(extract)
"The unacceptability of mixed-sex wards has been a cherished theme for every opposition since Tony Blair alighted, in 1996, on what is still, universally, agreed to be a valid cause of public upset.

Mixed wards, he said “cause indignity, upset people”. Subsequent studies, including a 2008 examination of nurse and patient perspectives, confirmed he had not exaggerated. There were patients, it confirmed, of both sexes and of varied ages, who “experienced a lack of privacy, worried about bodily exposure and felt uncomfortable”. Nurses entirely sympathised. “Mixed-sex accommodation,” it concluded, “is an unacceptable solution to bed shortages.” (continues)

Patients and their relatives attested to intrusion, exhibitionism and leering from nearby beds, even with staff around. In 2009, Channel 4 discovered that almost two-thirds of sexual assaults by patients in hospitals (21 out of 33 in 2007/8), occurred in mixed-sex wards. Variations on Blair’s question to an evasive John Major – “Is it beyond the collective wit of the government and the health administrators to deal with that problem?” – was a reliable line in opposition outrage until Jeremy Hunt declared in 2014 that this indignity was “nearly”, or “virtually”, history.

Regulations introduced by the coalition government in 2010 compelled hospital trusts to report their figures for mixed-ward occupation, then fined them £250 per night for breaches. “We want to see the end of mixed-sex wards,” Nick Clegg said. “Everybody knows this has got to end.” As recently as his 2015 conference speech, a key part of Hunt’s claims to representing “the party of the NHS” was the unqualified triumph: “mixed sex wards eliminated”. The mysterious disappearance of mixed-sex elimination from the recent Tory manifesto, plus its own virtual elimination from the J Hunt repertoire, has in turn revived opposition testimonials to the distress underlying the statistics.

Norman Lamb, the Lib Dems’ health spokesman, described soaring mixed-sex breaches, as hospitals come under more pressure, as “an utter scandal and an affront to basic human dignity”.

If this trend continues, thousands more patients may, when parliament resumes, have occupied a bed a few feet from a stranger of the opposite sex, an arrangement explicitly deplored in the NHS constitution. It “commits” to patients “that if you are admitted to hospital, you will not have to share sleeping accommodation with patients of the opposite sex, except where appropriate”. As for providers, they are expected, according to the NHS handbook, “to eliminate mixed-sex accommodation except where it is in the best overall interest of the patient involved or respects their personal choice”. (continues)
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/30/mixed-sexed-wards-endanger-and-humiliate-women

Males can never be in female single sex spaces or sport because as soon as they enter it it becomes a mixed sex space or sport. The single sex spaces ceases to exist.