Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Chauvin trial re George Floyd - Sky News

291 replies

chilling19 · 31/03/2021 08:42

Is anyone watching this? With the really upsetting and unarguable against video footage I can't see how the defence can build a case. Also the baiting by the defence lawyer of the female EMT witness was horrendous, as was the judge telling her off. She held her ground though, as did the previous child (female) witnesses.

OP posts:
Jabba2020 · 02/04/2021 00:22

There is and will never be any justification for a police officer to kneel on a persons neck for 9 minutes.
For a third of that he wasn't moving therefore it stopped being about restraint and became something else.
The other officers present are also responsible for not stopping this from happening.
Regardless of the sort of man GF was, police are not above the law, they are there to uphold it whilst remaining professional, impartial and conducting themselves in a manner that deserves respect. They let down the entire police force and I hope they get put away for a long time.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 01/04/2021 23:59

Pretty failed attempt then

I think it's clear there is common ground between campaigning against racism and campaigning against sexism

Victim blaming is common to both
What aboutery also
NAMALT akin to ALM

It's weird that the thread is here but it won't make feminists look bigoted because we are not.

Captpike · 01/04/2021 23:59

Deserved it? I'm female. I'm not a testosterone driven murderer. You are going to have to ask a testosterone driven murder that question. Do you think they might have the answer to your "deserve it" question? It is not a question that I would ever ask.

Not sure what you being a woman or not a murderer has to do with it. In your deleted post you seemed to be implying that GF somehow deserved what happened to him for being a "violent man ".

BlackWaveComing · 01/04/2021 23:50

I'm also unsure of why, basic decency aside, a British forum is meant to be devoting time to viewing (on Sky, no less) an American trial.

elgreco · 01/04/2021 23:47

Of course it has. There is a definite pattern.

Psuedoshoes · 01/04/2021 23:42

Urgh. It's like it's been posted to paint feminists as bigots. Most of us aren't- I hope Chauvin gets a guilty verdict and the disgusting racist goes down for a long time

Erkrie · 01/04/2021 23:40

I've reported anyway. Down to MNHQ what they decide to do.

Erkrie · 01/04/2021 23:39

Anything GF may have done before isn't a justification for him to be killed in the street.

Of course not. That should go without saying.

BlackWaveComing · 01/04/2021 23:39

@elgreco

I don't this this is a feminist issue and I am suspicious as to the reasons it has been posted here.
I'm also confused as to how this is a feminist issue.
Delphinium20 · 01/04/2021 23:36

Also, I agree this probably shouldn't be on feminism board.

Delphinium20 · 01/04/2021 23:34

Chauvin was part of the 3rd precinct and there have been numerous reports over the years of dubious and racist behavior by the police at that precinct.

www.startribune.com/third-precinct-served-as-playground-for-renegade-cops/571076562/

www.cbsnews.com/news/mark-bohnsack-minneapolis-police-department-reinstated-racist-christmas-tree-decorations/

Also, RT Rybak, a well respected former mayor of Minneapolis, also lays out reasons why this police department is particularly problematic.

www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/02/mayor-minneapolis-police-racism-294985

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 01/04/2021 23:34

Report and ask for it to be moved?

Erkrie · 01/04/2021 23:33

elgreco no it's not a feminist issue. I'm not sure why it's here either.

NeedToKnow101 · 01/04/2021 23:33

@elgreco

I don't this this is a feminist issue and I am suspicious as to the reasons it has been posted here.
I know what you mean. There is definitely a bit of a smear campaign against this board at the moment.
CovoidOfAllHumanity · 01/04/2021 23:31

I don't think I had ever been under the impression from media reporting that George Floyd was a saint or innocent of any crime. My position is that no-one deserves what happened to him whatever their crimes.

It's victim blaming and it's the same as when people try to say rape victims have to be 'innocent' not drunk or wearing a short skirt and preferably a virgin.
Like people didn't care too much about Peter Sutcliffe whilst he was just murdering prostitutes but when he started to kill 'innocent women' like Jayne MacDonald 2 yrs later the police took more notice.

Anything GF may have done before isn't a justification for him to be killed in the street.

elgreco · 01/04/2021 23:30

I don't this this is a feminist issue and I am suspicious as to the reasons it has been posted here.

Erkrie · 01/04/2021 23:20

The USA policing system is very complicated. It's not like the UK. There's not one system in use. There's all different sorts with different powers training etc all over the place.

I appreciate that it's different in different states, and not all would employ the knee on the neck. If it is a recognised restraint though, unless Chauvin didn't do it properly, as presumably as he was taught to do, then really, as something that the police do as part of their job, he shouldn't be prosecuted for it. It makes me think of the st John ambulance training I did (it's sort of the same but clearly different in application) and I was told that as long as I carried out the techniques exactly as I was taught, then I would not be prosecuted for anything that subsequently went wrong.

I could imagine a mass walk out from police if they find themselves being prosecuted for something they have been taught to do as part of their job.

As for the racist point. In that case no one can ever say anything is racist unless the person says something. I mean that's not exactly going to happen very often is it.

No. But is it reasonable to automatically assume that they are, as the whole world has done in this case?

If the black people in that part of the world say the police are racist then I take their word for it. They know way better than me.

Maybe so. But it doesn't mean every person that is called or accused of being a racist is actually a racist either. I appreciate that people say as a black person someone may get dealt with more harshly / rapidly by the police. It may well be true. But it doesn't mean that every interaction with the police is racist either. And in the case of Chauvin, and the world watching with baited breath / risk of riots if he isn't convicted, and the assumption that he is racist, even though others have died of the same technique, somehow it all seems a little bit off to me.

MabelPines · 01/04/2021 23:15

Watching this trail is very eye opening because the narrative that we have been told by the media is very different to what is being presented in court. But i can’t understand why they are so keen to paint GF as being a decent man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, when it was entirely his own damn fault he was on meth and using counterfeit money, he deserved to be arrested and charged.

But he didn’t deserve to be killed because of those crimes, as a pp said in a civilised society police should never have the powers to carry out summary justice! The prosecution would have had a much stronger case by presenting the argument that the state has a duty of care not to injure or kill people even if those people are criminals.

I hope that whatever the outcome of the trial the police are given better training in restraint and dealing with vulnerable people, even if that vulnerability is a result of their own bad choices.

Delphinium20 · 01/04/2021 23:09

The USA policing system is very complicated. It's not like the UK. There's not one system in use. There's all different sorts with different powers training etc all over the place.

Very true. Local unions and governments have varying rules. Police are not a federal agency, governance is city based and we also have state patrols but they deal more with highway and interstate crime.

Scepticaltank · 01/04/2021 23:07

[quote Captpike]@Scepticaltank

So this is just entertainment to you? George Floyd deserved it?[/quote]
Q1. I am observing how much this has become "entertainment". I am not at all engaged in the case, only in observing how people have behaved in response to the case, which is the content of the vast majority of the media streams about what happened.

Q2. Deserved it? I'm female. I'm not a testosterone driven murderer. You are going to have to ask a testosterone driven murder that question. Do you think they might have the answer to your "deserve it" question? It is not a question that I would ever ask.

VladmirsPoutine · 01/04/2021 23:02

people's point is being black is like having a target on your head. All it takes is the officer to have a bad day

I know all of this. I'm also part Black. I just find it bemusing to read people falling over themselves to justify it, explain it, rationalise it, offer up whatabouttery about it, claim GF was high / drunk / criminal record etc etc. Basically doing everything but just acknowledging that it was racist, GF was murdered and that whilst similar has happened to white men doesn't detract from the fact that police brutality most often targets Black people, and incidentally Black children.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 01/04/2021 22:55

The reason racism is involved is that what happened to George Floyd is overwhelming more likely to happen to black men than to white men in the US and in the U.K.

Yes you will be able to find some cases of white men who died due to police brutality but you will find many more cases of black men (and boys like 12 yr old Tamir Rice) and relative to the population there is no argument at all that they are over represented in deaths in custody.

In the U.K. I only know of one white person who died under police/ mental health restraint (Thomas Orchard) but loads and loads of black men (Rocky Bennet, Leon Briggs, Seni Lewis, Sean Rigg, Kevin Clarke, Kingsley Burrell, Rashad Charles, Edson Da Costa and that is not an exhaustive list)

See the Angiolini report for official stats.

In my view it is due to the racist stereotype that black men are dangerous so that when they are mentally unwell and 'behave oddly' they are perceived as aggressive and met with force more than white men.

To being it back to feminism it is also a trope applied to black women. The justification given for restraining Joy Gardner with 13m of tape and asphyxiating her to death was her 'super human strength'

Met police are 4 x more likely to use force in arresting a black person than a white one and 3x more likely to taser them.

So yes indisputably police violence is a racial issue.

NiceGerbil · 01/04/2021 22:52

'An overhaul of policing methods and restraints clearly needs reviewing regardless'

The USA policing system is very complicated. It's not like the UK. There's not one system in use. There's all different sorts with different powers training etc all over the place.

I'm not an expert but I think that's true.

As for the racist point. In that case no one can ever say anything is racist unless the person says something. I mean that's not exactly going to happen very often is it.

If the black people in that part of the world say the police are racist then I take their word for it. They know way better than me.

The implication of that is also that the riots etc had no basis whatsoever. And I'm not sure I want to know the answers as to why the rioting happened if not because people were sick of registration racist police.

Erkrie · 01/04/2021 22:39

I think it will be carnage either way.

N51BU · 01/04/2021 22:38

If chauvin walks free I hate to think what's going to happen across the U.S. It will be carnage

Swipe left for the next trending thread