Chauvin trial re George Floyd - Sky News

Everyone who has any restraint training should know that prolonged prone (face down) restraint is a huge risk and should not happen. If it happens at all it should be timed and breathing monitored. Many people have died in this position (positional asphyxia) because of pressure on the chest and not being able to see when someone is slipping into unconsciousness.
It's been strictly limited in the U.K. for years. See tragic case below of Rocky Bennett in 1998

image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Society/documents/2004/02/12/Bennett.pdf

Difficult to watch. Today the witness grilled on defense tactics stated once you handcuff on the ground even if resisting they should be put in side recovery position or a device to restrain their legs should be used, and telling someone to relax while on them, as they plead distress, is 'not necessarily effective'. No shit.

The knee on the neck doesn't need to be proved the sole or main cause of death for a murder conviction to ensue, as I understand it. The fact that GF was thought to be 'on something' as the defendant claimed in a conversation caught on his body camera after the ambulance had left just means DC knew GF was extra vulnerable and should have been handled carefully. There will often be multiple factors contributing to a death, especially a violent death, and it only needs one factor to be intentional for a conviction.

CNN is good for discussion of the issues and they bring in experts. Other news channels are available!

If there isn't a conviction justice is broken.

If the prosecution can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that the knee on the neck was the cause of death, Chauvin walks.

adrianmolesmole

Most people have some sort of pre-existing condition, or take medication or drugs. Any one of us – actually, even the biggest healthiest bloke – would have died under that knee-on-neck treatment. It's murder, plain as

I agree. Moreover, there is already a legal doctrine that covers this. If by some chance your victim is more vulnerable than average and dies as a result of your crime, where another would not have done, it is tough luck on you. You take your victim as you find them and you are responsible for what you did. No whining about how it was their fault they died.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull

It just seems to me that whether George Floyd was on drugs, whether he had a heart condition, whether he was a criminal or not, it's all completely irrelevant. It's all a deflection away from Chauvin. Racist PPs defending him should be ashamed of themselves.

Most people have some sort of pre-existing condition, or take medication or drugs. Any one of us – actually, even the biggest healthiest bloke – would have died under that knee-on-neck treatment. It's murder, plain as.

If GF was a criminal then he should have been taken to trial. Chauvin should not have acted as his executioner, but like a proper policeman took him in to prison.

If he doesn't get locked up for this for a very long time I hope the riots will be huge.

The obvious come back to that is that everyone else on the scene was able to see that he was not posing a threat but dying. It did not require hindsight it was evident to everyone else at the time.

The trainer has said they don't train to use a knee in restraint. Interested to see what they say about defensive tactics and medical training.

Concerning that the Defense mentioned a prior case that established 'the reasonableness of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of the reasonable officer at the scene, rather than the benefit of 20.20 hindsight' and the 'calculus of reasonablenss must allow for split second decisions, in situations that can be tense, uncertain, rapidly evolving.'

9 minutes isn't a split second decision and I would hope the fact that other officers pointed out he had no pulse would be a factor.

To clarify I mean the divide of the humanity shown by those on the footpath and the callous disregard of George Floyd by Chauvin and his fellow officers is what this is all about. RIP George Floyd.

I completely agree @Dissimilitude.

I am so surprised by the demeanour of the judge, especially to the fire fighter - first responder.

Genevieve Hansen, Darnella and Darnell's cousin are sheros.

Donald Williams 'I did call the police on the police' and him calling out the defense on making him out like angry, black man.

The dichotomy of the witnesses on the street, who were powerless but did speak and call the police about the treatment of George Floyd is such a divide.

If a conviction does not happen, and perhaps even if it does, there will be protests regardless.

The footage is completely shocking to me, because they clearly felt no duty of care for that man. One could argue whether it was racially driven all day long, but it seems inarguably the case that the power gradient between armed officers and the people under arrest leads to all sorts of abuses we should care about.

I am worried that a murder charge is overreach, however, though I am not familiar with the specifics of how intent to kill has to be evidenced.

Manslaughter is much easier to prove, and hopefully that is enough to put him away for a long time.

Even if they manage to show that he had major health problems which contribute to the death, the callousness with which they treat him is criminal, those officers failed utterly and Chauvin in particular should be jailed for that alone.

The more trials televised the more people will see the inequities in the US justice system.

I agree with that.

With regard to the concerns raised in the OP, American lawyers do seem to be generally.more aggressive than we're used to in the UK. Great when it's the prosecution interrogating a suspect, not so great when it's a woman who was just trying to do her job and save a man's life.

Everyone, no matter how scummy, is entitled to a robust defence though. It can be a difficult balance.

(I watch quite a lot of true crime videos on YouTube.)

Me and another poster tried to get a discussion going about looking at this from a feminist perspective earlier but no one else seemed interested. (See upthread about female police officers)

I would just like to point out that if you are based in the UK and used cash on a regular basis between 2015 and 2017, you paid with counterfeit coins.

The sheer magnitude of counterfeit pound coins led directly to the introduction of the current one in 2017. At one point in 2015, I decided to check my change for counterfeits regularly with the pious intend of removing them from circulation. I gave up after four days because it was going to be too expensive to carry on. They were that ubiquitous.

You need to @mnhq

It would be great if you could explain why you think it belongs here.

This is a very important thread, but it doesn't belong in FWR. I'm baffled by Mumsnet's decision here.