AZ clotting issue affects mainly women

www.standard.co.uk/news/health/covid-vaccine-30-reduction-transmission-b923760.html

Finally UK expert admits causal link is likely.

I read (can't remember where) that because Europe initially prevented older ppl from getting AZ, it was given to younger ppl such as teachers, police officers etc whereas here it has so far mainly been administered to the older population and this is why Europe have seen more concerning data despite the millions of doses the UK has dished out. When we vaccinate the younger population we could well start to see a similar pattern emerging unless they switch to one of the other vaccines we have on order in the younger population.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity
(Before I write this I am not anti-vax: I have had both my jabs - pfizer.)

Technically its not fully licensed - its approved for emergency use.

The trial was paused a few times. Every time it was the same issue affecting the same sex of childbearing age.

It was always a rare central nervous system reaction. The report when it was resumed stated they could not prove it was caused by the vaccine - but they could not prove that it was NOT proved by the vaccine either.

It was unexplained.

At the time I was concerned about this so I actually wrote to Boris Johnson to say that as this vaccine was near compulsory for those working with vulnerable people that they should have a choice of vaccine and they potentially err on the side of caution for women of child bearing age and should not be offered the Oxford.

There is evidence that it reduces your chance of passing on covid after a single dose www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/02/single-dose-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-could-cut-transmission-by-67

In terms of cognitive bias people are often less happy with a risk that they actively take on eg the vaccination than one that they see as existing in the background that they don’t control eg covid

This is true.

However, this is a vaccine which does not offer 100% life time protection, and the evidence is not there that it can stop you passing Covid on, either. Next year there will be new jabs in response to new mutations, just as with flu jab.

@Fieldofmemes Anyone can say no to the vaccine. A lot of medications carry risks like hormonal birth control but we decide whether the benefits outweighs the risk collectively and individually. In terms of cognitive bias people are often less happy with a risk that they actively take on eg the vaccination than one that they see as existing in the background that they don’t control eg covid.

The risk of COVID very clearly outweighs the risk of the vaccine by many times. Explained well here

Statistics are all well and good.....unless you happen to be the person who suffers from the side effects from the vaccination. It is a risk no matter how small the statistics suggest. Especially if you have a family history of strokes and heart issues etc

Right at the beginning of Covid we were told the risks of serious illness were also small; that most people recover; and many do not even have any symptoms at all. That children and young people were at very little real risk at all - unless they had severe underlying conditions.

There has definitely been mission creep, and now babies are being used in trials for the Moderna vaccine.

Catching covid or flu is a risk involved in the process of living, but willingly being vaccinated is not a necessary or unavoidable part of living. That is the difference.

I've had my first jab by the way ( I felt compelled, on account of the suggestion of vaccine passports to travel and so on...). I had the A.Z. That was two weeks ago, and I have been having heart pains since ( new for me, never has them before) and had to attend the hospital for an ECG on Thursday. I've also suffered from a recurrence of post menopausal bleeding ( I'm 55).

I know of someone who had a stroke within two hours of the jab. He was fit and healthy, but now may never work again.

My father has had two strokes ( one in his 50's), and my mother died of a heart event in November - neither linked to covid or vaccines.....but it is natural to feel a little anxious about taking a vaccination when it can have such reported side effects. Statistics don't mean much at that point.

I’m certainly no scientist, but as well as the possible connection to hormonal birth control, I did wonder if there was any link to the vaccinated people who suffered these blood clots having previously had COVID, knowingly or not? I did read a while ago that Drs were seeing “clotting complications” in people suffering with Covid (Link to article from last year - www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/22/coronavirus-blood-clots/ )

My phone, totally unscientific, thought was that whether in someone who has already had Covid the immune response could, in rare cases, kick off one of these complications?

Happy to be corrected by those who know better!

Totally unacceptable to me that the UK thinks it's ok to keep forcing this AZ vaccine on young women - they should get stocks of another vaccine and FAST. But forget my opinion, or any other anecdotal evidence you might have heard about vaccine side effects. Just ask yourselves why so many other countries have STOPPED giving AZ to young people. And ask yourselves whether you are happy for teenagers to receive AZ because that will be next thing.

@SirVixofVixHall no - only 2 cases of CVST post Pfizer and they didn't have the additional unusual low platelet count - so more likely a "normal" CVST.

They are saying that the benefits of AZ outweigh the risks. I'm not sure that is the case if you are a 20 year old woman whose risk of severe Covid is very low indeed.

The trials were across all age groups. I'm an under 50 female and I was in the AZ trial although it turned out I had placebo.

In order to be licensed the trials had to include all ages and sexes to be sure risk is greater than benefit at each age. That's what regulators look at

If you were unlucky enough to get a CVST it's a very bad thing. One of the 7 people in the U.K. died

But it's a 1 in 2.5million chance of getting the blood clot on the U.K. data or 1 in 100,000 for the German data

As compared to 2,500 in 2.5 million for an under 40 year old to die of COVID.

The risk of COVID very clearly outweighs the risk of the vaccine by many times. Explained well here:

Covid-19: Seven UK blood clot deaths after AstraZeneca vaccine www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56620646

Why don't they say the sex and age of the people who have died?

They include the German data which says younger women.

I do wonder if the trials focussed on the covid at risk groups.

The clots seem to be of a type, very rare, and pretty killy. They're in the brain.

Covid-19: Seven UK blood clot deaths after AstraZeneca vaccine www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56620646

Here's the BBC link

I think a balanced article
Doesn't give age or sex of the 7 people in the U.K. who died

It's 7/ 18 million ie 1/2.5 million
Vs chances of dying of COVID under 40 of 2,500/2.5 million
That's for both sexes. They did not report separately for men and women
Natural occurrence of the condition is 2-16/million so not necessarily increased frequency post vaccine.

There were 2 cases of CVST with Pfizer/ 10 million also (vs 22 cases with AZ) but not accompanied by the low platelets

I think it probably is a real side effect but a very very rare one
Jury is still out for me on whether younger women are more affected or not.

Either way it's way less likely to kill or hospitalise you than COVID that remains very clear.

I guess in an ideal world maybe Pfizer and Moderna would be used as they don't have this risk but a) we don't have anywhere enough of those and b) something could yet come up with them that sways the balance the other way.

They quote in the article that the flu jab has a 1 in a million occurrence of GBS which is a very nasty life threatening thing. I have my flu jab every year and have never been warned of that but I wouldn't expect to be as a 1 in a million risk.

I would still be happy to have any of the licensed vaccines myself.

Are they seeing the same post Pfizer ?

Sorry I haven't caught up on the whole thread it's long.

I assume they're considering interactions with hormonal birth control?

Seven deaths in the UK now. ):

It's on the BBC news.

What I noticed was that you have to get right to the end before you find out the risk group seems to be younger women.

With covid itself the fact men were more at risk if serious illness was front and centre.

I don't know how 1 in 100000 compares to other drugs/ vaccines.

LemonSwan what issues at trial?
There weren't any serious complications identified in the trial in women of child bearing age or anyone else or it would not have been licensed.

*Could people please stop referring to statistics for "strokes" or "blood clots" generally? The condition is CVST or VIPIT, an extremely rare type of stroke, the incidence of which is (usually) 3 or 4 in a million annually8

But this condition causes strokes and blood clots. I wouldn't have been aware of that if i hadn't googled it beforehand. Blinding people with scientific terminology does nothing to help people make decisions or understand, in real terms.

I do feel that some of the zealousness around vaccine promotion acts as a prohibition about discussing side effects which are real.

It might sound like I’m being flippant, but I’m trying to show that things aren’t happening just because of vaccines

No! But sometimes they are.

Considering the issues at trial were exclusively isolated to women of child bearing age - I am not surprised.

I am surprised it took this long for this to come out when they have been talking about this for weeks with little detail - I was thinking it was EU political fluff.

Could people please stop referring to statistics for "strokes" or "blood clots" generally? The condition is CVST or VIPIT, an extremely rare type of stroke, the incidence of which is (usually) 3 or 4 in a million annually.

To be clear “both genders” is their wording. There are contact details in there if anyone wants to raise that point.

This from expert haematological panel says both genders, no clear risk profile

They would do better looking at sex