Rugby - RFU seeking feedback on its transgender policy

I filled mine in assuming I was speaking directly to one of them that I had taught. Assuming that I have they might even recognise my writig style - all Socratic questioning and sarcasm

Having read the FPFW thread and pondered all that has been written here and elsewhere, I went with a very personal angle: what did you measure in the biomech lab? Why did you stop playing mixed sex rugby? Look at your mum, wife, sister, daughter - would you play a full contact game against them? Why not?

And then asked them to step back from their Stonewall training and to wonder what it was they were REALLY being asked to do.

We shall see...

Stonewall still saying 'this is discrimination.' The safety of women athletes would be completely thrown under the bloody bus if they had anything to do with it...

To be honest, I think that's a route that the RFU should look to go down, with the caveat that it should be limited to touch Rugby not the full contact version. That way transwomen and transmen can still have the social and fitness benefits of the sport, and play with both women and men that are happy to participate in a mixed sex game, while protecting the right of women to play in single sex teams should they prefer.

Mixed sex touch teams already exist, or they certainly did when I played. We’d play regular rugby throughout the season and play in a mixed sex touch league over the summer.

They need to decide what they are actually segregating by. Is it sex? Gender identity? Size? Weight? What is the point of the categories? Which of these give advantages over others?

gay I will see if I can find anything, I am at a funeral this morning so it will be later on.

As the mother of a male rugby player who has knelt, mid game, pitch side whilst paramedics attended to my son before rushing him to hospital for emergency surgery it is unconscionable and criminally wrong to allow those born male to compete against girls.

My son made a full recovery but I do not exaggerate when I say the boy who (unintentionally) injured him could have killed a girl.

One of the things I find hardest to deal with is that I genuinely believe sports should be for all, and I really want to be part of the conversation that works out how transgender players can enjoy and excel at sports

This has always been my take with British Cycling. By shoehorning males into women’s sport, sport governing bodies are actually missing out on the big picture, one that most people would support.

Does the survey require you to provide contact details?

I got halfway through the Guardian article and stopped at the "assigned male at birth" BS.
I'm definitely going to complete the form. I'm horrified at the idea.

Just filled the survey in and went for it. I’m an ITU nurse in South Wales. I’ve seen some horrendous rugby injuries. Mostly in fit, healthy young men that will never walk again. Putting Men into the women’s game will increase the serious injury risk. I can’t believe they are just dismissing women’s safety like this

I want to hear a lot more about what this panel will be assessing when a player approaches them looking for clearance to play.

What criteria will they be assessing?
What measures will they be using?
What qualifications will the panel have?
What would cause a player not to pass the assessment?
Will other players opinions be taken into account, eg around sharing changing facilities?
Who will be measuring the testosterone levels?
Who will be paying for the testing?
How often will it be done?

It’s a ridiculous fudge and I’m not happy. Please, also get your rugby loving husbands, sons etc to fill this in, because under this regime, they will be asked to accept responsibility for the safety of female bodies on the field with them. My husband is really upset at the prospect of being required to tackle someone he knows is female. All decent men should be. This goes against his personal moral code of never hurting women that’s at the core of his DNA.

I have just been watching Sky Sports (again) and a slot came on about this - honestly from the way it was presented it sounded as if it is a given -they used the word propose a couple of times but no mention of a consultation and no mention that it is against world rugby recommendations.

Then we had a slot from a transwoman who plays football and it was all positive and how sport is so important - yes, yes it is and it is good that sports and clubs can be accepting and individuals can continue to enjoy sports, stay fit and healthy etc etc, but there has to be a line in the sand as soon as safety is concerned (fairness is a separate issue).

I have seen the argument made so many times.

It goes something like.
Some men have physical advantages over other men.
Some women have physical advantages over other women.
Some women are taller and stronger than some men.
Some people like Micheal Phelps are born with huge advantages over others at a sport, that's life and life isn't fair.
Rather than separating by sex, other parameters like height/ weight would be better. Categories like this exist in other sports.
If women lose in these fair categories, then they're not trying hard enough.

It seems to me that rugby England have lifted their totally arbitrary parameters directly from this argument.

I wonder what their game is? Women are over 5'7. Why shouldn't they be checked? I mean it's asking for a massive row from all sides. Were they fed this idea or did they come up with it themselves?

And what are these safety checks anyway? Do they really want to go down that route? It sounds open to loads of accusations of discrimination.

Also.

Women are not just small men FFS.

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm genuinely upset by the England RFU's approach to this.

World Rugby took a science-based approach to this and can be reviewed in full here: www.world.rugby/news/563437
The conclusion was that it is not safe for anyone who has gone through male puberty to play women's rugby.

When I started playing rugby 20+ years ago, we were the only sport that openly welcomed GNC women. To see my youth club now being pressurised to be "inclusive" vs the safety of their own players is devastating.

My response to the consultation was clear: if they proceed with their current transgender policy proposal then my daughter will cease playing the game (switch to play football, where her neck won't be broken), and I won't be coaching the women's game like us female ex-players keep being asked to do in order to increase visibility (no way my conscience would allow a male puberty player to harm a female player on my watch).

One of the things I find hardest to deal with is that I genuinely believe sports should be for all, and I really want to be part of the conversation that works out how transgender players can enjoy and excel at sports, but lazy proposals like this one from England RFU don't help anyone.

I could hear my husband muttering in rage as he filled it in just now

“I’m writing “MAN, MALE, XY” in their stupid other box!” followed by frantic tapping on the iPad keyboard.

Thank you for starting this thread. I have completed the consultation. My anger and indignation may have been apparent in my response...I added a paragraph about the initial descriptors and that cis woman is an offensive term to me. I can't believe the RFU is proposing this.

My teenage daughter has broken a limb twice playing rugby. She still absolutely loves the sport but each time she's been wary about getting back into it after injury.
Just shown her this and she gutted.
The thought of potentially having to play against males means she won't carry on after U18.

The problem here is that actually anyone who has taken drugs should not be taking part in sport. Both transmen and transwomen take drugs, the biggest advantage, as usual, goes to the transwomen whose testosterone levels remain at the high end compared to a real woman.

But it's not faaaaaaiiiiiiiir. Yes it is very fair, to women and men who train hours and hours to be the best they can be at their sport without drugs.

www.ultimaterugby.com/lagi-tuima

From that link I click on England to choose the team - men's team obvs.
Oh, England Women is right at the end. Surprise.

When some rugby clubs still won't even entertain the thought of a women or girls team this is so poor. My daughter plays and although there are LOADS of local rugby clubs we have to travel quite far for fixtures at strange times.
As well as the obvious biological factors, girls have been put off, or even not allowed to play for so long 'because they'll get hurt', 'because it's not a girl's sport' etc. etc.

IT'S NOT FAIR!

Heaviest man is 130kg... But only 1.8m tall.

But even if that size is 'normal' at professional level, it won't be at local level!