Rugby - RFU seeking feedback on its transgender policy

Me too

I filled in the consultation. I thought of writing a reasonable, evidence-based response citing all the research and thought, Nah, they know all that already. World Rugby has already carefully showed its workings. So I just submitted a rant about how they were putting women's lives at risk, and felt better.

Just another example of institutions making something inclusive by excluding women, this time by removing the sex segregation which improves safety and fairness.

'Trans and gender diverse young people should be able to share sporting dreams with their peers without being made to feel ‘othered’ because of the size and shape of their bodies. It’s a real worry that the guidelines could lead to eating disorders and other harmful attempts to try and meet policy requirements. '

Regurgitation of a long standing feminist argument.

Pressure on girls and women to conform to certain body shapes leads to a range of issues- eating disorders, low self esteem etc.

They are utterly shameless

I also note from that piece that the transman plays against women

???

So the women's teams need to accept transwomen on self ID, non binary people (of either sex?), and transmen (but TMAM???).

the male category seems to be the obvious one welcome everyone. It's much more established etc.

There are massive issues with female participation in sport especially during/ after puberty

And again this participation problem is being repurposed for arguments for trans 'inclusiveness'.

It's just awful

It’s still not enough for Mermaids. They want no restrictions for transwomen playing against women re weight or height.

The transman who wrote the article also plays against women and appears to have taken testosterone but wants no restrictions for them to play.

They are concerned that restrictions could result in eating disorders or other harmful practices.

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/response-to-the-rfu-trans-rugby-policy-and-consultation/

Absolutely. I had noticed a nearby research establishment was often advertising for male participants and vaguely wondered why they never seemed to be recruiting women for research projects involving us. Then about a year ago someone who worked there explained they only did research in men as they were simpler.

Bit of a last fucking cop out that isn't it

Research is often not done in women because of our menstrual cycles and pregnancy. We are more complicated meaning larger sample sizes are needed.

Place marking so I can respond when I've calmed down. The RFU are insane.

newsletter.carolinecriadoperez.com/issues/invisible-women-it-s-official-women-are-non-men-503519

In case anyone wants to read whole newsletter.

I was just reading the newsletter, too, 334bu!

Caroline gets it, I’m sure.

Gender data gap of the week
Sticking with non-men playing sport, (A LIKELY STORY 🧐) this week came the revelation that while the FA mandates four doctors at every men’s premier league match, only one doctor is required at women’s matches. The doctors at the men’s matches also have access to real time replays to help them spot concussions as they happen. The women’s doctor does not. A gender data gap if ever there was one.
Meanwhile, the BBC proclaims a saliva test for concussion to be 94% accurate – but only in men, because it hasn’t been tested in women.
All this despite the fact that we know women are both more likely than men to experience concussion and suffer longer term consequences. Although it should be noted that there is a data gap here too: all the research on sport-induced early onset dementia has, so far, only been done in men.
This is pretty standard for sport science, which as I wrote in a 2019 article for The Telegraph has one of the worst data gaps of any research area. There is, however, a woman on a mission to change this, at least when it comes to women’s rugby: Dr Elizabeth Williams, a researcher at Swansea University.
Her findings, which include significant sex differences in neck strength as well as in how and when players receive head injuries (in the male game it tends to occur to the person tackling, but this is very rare in the female game) should add urgency to the need to collect data in female athletes specifically, rather than applying research done in men to all humans. Female athletes need female-specific training based on female-specific research.( Extract from " Invisible Women" Newsletter)

So not just England rugby who don't give a damn about their female players' safety. Who would have guessed!

So often in these debates, you get told that the definition between male and female is so complex and anyone saying any different has an infantile understanding, and yet on the other hand they're arguing that the only difference is testosterone?

Oh look. A complete list of RFU partners.
www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/rfu-partners

I think we need to be talking about a boycott of the men's RFU, and their sponsors, if they don't pull their heads out of their arses.

Makes no sense.

Male: refers to a person who produces testosterone at puberty and adolescence.

Female: refers to a person who does not produce male levels of testosterone at puberty and adolescence.

But apparently any testosterone being produced means someone is male. So there isn't a 'male' level.

That level of sexism and idiocy is almost impressive.

I’m incandescent about that definition.

When you place it in the context of how women’s rugby, and rugby playing women have been treated, and continue to be treated as lesser, it is a fucking slap in the face.

This is what focusing on testoerone levels gets you- complete scientific illiteracy that leads to nonsense like this that doesn’t just disappear all of the other sex based differences, but uses male as the default, and frames women as inferior.

When we’re talking about WOMENS RUGBY, in which you would think it would be reasonable to USE WOMEN AS THE DEFAULT MEASURE!

FUCK OFF ENGLAND RUGBY. RED CARD.

And WHY are the definitions of female in this sort of thing always related to how we differ from men?

(Rhetorical question)

Interestingly my DH who for unknown reasons has his testosterone at rock bottom

And is over 6 foot, used to play rugby, and is a powerful male build

Is female?

Erm ok.

This stuff is really offensive to men with low testosterone isn't it.

He's a massive bloke with everything working but according to them he's a woman....?

'Male: refers to a person who produces testosterone at puberty and adolescence.

Female: refers to a person who does not produce male levels of testosterone at puberty
and adolescence."

Oh fuck them. Non males. Like men but lacking...

All this tells me is all these years, any gains we thought we made were bollocks.

We're still just like men but more rubbish. In their eyes.

Seriously fuck them.

As I suspect is usual practice for most of us if we're honest, I read down the definition list and stopped when I thought I'd found the entry that was for me: refers to a person who produces testosterone at puberty and adolescence.

Excellent. Well we're mostly all male then.

I am embarrassed for them and glad DS has decided not to play any more. I’m sure that their zero regard for safeguarding only applies to girls but I want nothing to do with such an absolute shower.