Rugby - RFU seeking feedback on its transgender policy

Does anyone know when we will get the results?

Done!

He laughed incredulously when they said that a player's size is not related to how likely they are to cause injury.

They actually said that? Do they think they’ve won the war on biology so now they’re going to take on physics? You can’t say force is proportional to mass because Einstein proved Newton wrong!

Oh goddammit, that’s actually plausible isn’t it?

Done. Thank you!

Here's the link again.

www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/rfu-policies/transgender-policy

Just bumping this as the deadline is tomorrow. I don't know what time tomorrow - it could even be midnight tonight (ie before the deadline date 6th May) so get your answers in.
Fair play for women have published a response.

The survey is multiple choices, then one text box and once you click to move on from that you're done, no backsies.

Its anonymous.

Good to know, helle...

I have already done my submission, but I might mention I notice that it is device specific and if I had wanted to I could do the survey on different devices.

If I wanted to that is...

Yes noticed it's been extended. I was surprised it was a short time frame to start with. This is a more sensible time frame but it must mean either they don't have the number of replies they wanted, they don't reflect the demographic they wanted, or they are not giving the answers wanted.

That is interesting Kit. I thought they would have a huge influx of people supporting it. Maybe though, the activist line of only full inclusion is causing consternation.

The deadline has been extended to the 5th May - I assume they're not getting the responses they wanted....

I entered the debate on FB with a friend who is heavily involved in community rugby, she beleives TWAW and welcomes TW in her team assuming testosterone levels have reduced. I engaged to a point then stepped back as I value her friendship and we were not going to meet on this one.

Push for this 100% and watch the pushback...and then the embarrassed tumbleweed

Just completed it and gave them a piece of my mind as well. Phrases like 'seek to strike a balance between inclusion, fairness and safe inclusion' make me want to scream and shout. They are saying women should put up with more physical injuries so a male bodied player can take part in women's sport on the basis that that's where they 'feel most comfortable'. Do they think women are human? We certainly don't seem to have full human rights. Given the World Rugby research and that they require transmen to sign a declaration recognising the increased risk to them of playing in men's sport, and they separate girls and boys after the age of 12 for safety reasons, yet women get no say over whether they play against a transwoman or not, I cannot see the policy standing up in court for 5 minutes if an injured women takes them to court. Please do let them know what you think - It doesn't take long to complete.

Slight derail here but I thought this was interesting timing.

There's an advert for a sensitive toothpaste on tv at the moment featuring a women's rugby team player midst game, then, afterwards drinking a cold drink.

Voiceover states 'some pain is worth taking' (playing rugby) and some not (tooth pain whilst drinking something cold)

Is this nudge theory at play here-conditioning us to believe anything thrown at a woman rugby player is 'worth it?'

Just a word of warning. The survey is quite abrupt. It takes you through a number of tick poxes where you 'agree' or 'strongly disagree' etc with various bits of the policy, then there is one box for you to be able to write your own words. When you click to submit that box the survey finishes and that's it.

www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/rfu-policies/transgender-policy

0there's the fact that a mediocre male rugby player can take a woman's place on a team due to his biological advantages

If strong teams make money like football, I can imagine our women's rugby will just be full of trans over time.

What's the point of height and weight restrictions if this doesn't apply to biological women they still feel being 'discriminated'.

We should have separate teams for transgender.

I propose, in the pursuit of fairness and inclusion, ALL levels of rugby should be 50/50 male and female. Everyone just signs a waiver and gets on with it.

Sounds good? No? Why not?

I also think that most men, irrespective of a signed waiver, will not feel comfortable going full force against a trans man.

My son was 6ft and well built when he was 14. The idea of him playing rugby in a team against his twin sister doesn't bear thinking about.

Also just thought.

This policy (and the IOC) with their testosterone level thing are saying that any man with testosterone lower than that is a non man, not a real man. A woman. That's a massive kick in the teeth for men may well already be feeling pretty bloody sensitive about it.

Ditto the weight/ height thing. Reminds me of that old USA advert about being a 7 stone weakling and needing the atlas program. Boys and men are very hierarchical and judgemental about the physique of other men.

What message does this send ?

I mean for years big strong women have had men saying they look like men as an insult.

Now we have big strong butch rugby saying if you're under this height/ weight/ testosterone then you're a woman?

That's really really shitty.

Don't say that sexnotgender. It'll be used as 'proof' that any responses saying it's not a great policy were all written by 3 women on MN etc.

Completed it. Refused to tick Cis Woman so just wrote "woman" in the text box

Thank you for this thread. I have responded to the survey.

The legal obligations of RFU extend only to reasonable adjustments to accommodate those with protected characteristics. The Equality Act 2010 allows for protected groups to be excluded from certain activities where there is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. It is a legitimate aim to keep biologically female players safe.

It is beyond reasonable, and surely disproportionate, to put biologically female players at risk by allowing biological males to play alongside them. Similarly, allowing biological female players who identify as male to play alongside male players is reckless and I do not believe a signed waiver would sufficiently clear RFU in the case of a negligence claim as the risk is foreseeable based on scientific data that is widely available about the increased risk of rugby related injuries to biological female players.

I have serious concerns that allowing a biological male player could seriously injure my U18 daughter accidentally by way of their biological advantage in strength and power. World Rugby have already made their stance clear on safety grounds and I strongly believe that this is the correct one.

If this policy is introduced I will be insisting that our club notifies me if a trans female player joins the team so that I can withdraw my daughter for her own protection. This is a sad and personally very difficult prospect.