Transman Prinz Chiyo Gomes splits gay community: gay man accused of hate

my remarks and replies never meant to question that

Give over mate, that was literally the entire point of your ill judged first post 🤣 that people here are ignorant and need educated. Never mind with the mealy mouthed platitudes about “owning it”, and the frantic back pedal.

Settle in with a cuppa, read a few threads and get a feel for the place. That is good netiquette on this and every other forum.

(I am a bit worried about the money though. Seems unfair to hang onto that amount of money if you're not using it for the purpose it was intended/requested for...but not derailing...so yes being kind and being educated, let's get right on that 🙄)

I never brought in the comments hating anyone, you have done that yourselves my above comment is one from myself personally and I can imagine that some of you would have said exactly the same if the roles were reversed and I had stated this thread in a positive way.

What? Some of us would be as supercilious as your posts?

If you cannot see just how passive aggressive you are in your post, how patronising, that is your own issue.

Perhaps you are very used to speaking to others in a way that you have been assured by others is merely 'righteous' but frankly, if you don't think that telling posters to 'shut the fuck up' is not 'hating anyone' then maybe you need some new friends that are honest with you.

Wow

I hope you stay, now you have found us.

It would be informative all round if you did.

You can hope to change our minds and we can hope to change yours. As long as we all remain civil that would be debating at it best!

Hi everyone,

Firstly thank you to the person (or people) who pointed out that my remark regarding myself as a non binary person came across as possibly excluding other LGBTQ+ members within this thread and in general. I sincerely apologise for any misunderstandings on my part regarding this, I would never intend to this on purpose.

I understand that people here are intelligent and well educated, my remarks and replies never meant to question that. If I came across as rude I am owning it - we can all learn and so can I, I never claim to know everything on subjects and my comment to this post was not to cause upset on purpose, while I do not appreciate some of the responses I received you are all justified to make of my comments what you will, we'll just have to agree to disagree on them if that's the case.

If I came across as rude I will of course own that, I have apologised in my previous comment also - I did not mean the comment to come across rudely. We can all educate ourselves further, I was not implying that people are not educated - we all learn by research and that was the point I was trying to get across, there was no malicious intent.

If you took the time to read this thank you

I think you'll find people are educated and just because you don't like someone opinion doesn't mean they aren't kind. Sick of this 'be kind' crap which basically equates to 'I don't agree with your opinion so therefore you shouldn't have one'
Maybe it's you who needs to educate themselves Georgia

as a non binary person who dared to speak for a member of the LGBTQ community I have been met with hostility.

Why did you think coming onto a forum and telling people to 'Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!' was a kind thing to do?

And what reaction did you expect to such patronising tripe?

Did you expect to be greeted with a cup of tea and a biscuit while you pontificated?

Missed the Miss Carriage reference. How utterly vile, who chooses that name, for...a joke?

Someone who has never had a miscarriage and isn't capable of giving a thought to women who have, is who.

How unsurprising that this person is a man.

I am not going to weigh in on names of other performers however, I am sending a virtual hug to anyone re: Miss Carriage and others in the same vein as I think the room should have definitely been read with that one!

Would you mind clarifying what you mean with this statement please?

Are you saying that yes, it is absolutely abhorrent to take a name such as 'Miss Carriage'? Or are you telling us, women on Mumsnet, a parenting forum that we should be 'reading the room'?

And lets face it: you dug up and resurrected a post months old specifically in order to announce to women that they must shut up, sit down and 'be kind' which means in essence, suffer the harm being done to you without protest.

No. Is the short answer to that.

As an L person Georgia, I found your post unkind, thoughtless and rude to LGB people, arrogant in its assumptions and righteousness, and absolutely oblivious to the depth of the issues and the wider impacts of them.

If you say rude, thoughtless things to people that supports an agenda that has homophobia and misogyny lurking very largely within it, scolding and attempting to shame and silence them for voicing the impact upon them - you cannot really be surprised and act as if you are the injured party when they tell you what they think of your actions.

@GeorgiaPass you say "as a non binary person who dared to speak for a member of the LGBTQ community I have been met with hostility."

Can I challenge the assumption within this response that no one here is a lesbian, gay or bisexual? In addition, many women posting here are "gender non-conforming" as some would define it, or put more clearly, simply refuse to kow-tow to oppressive sex-based stereotypes.

What additional weight to your argument does your identification as "non-binary" add? And why do you see a refusal to bow to your commands as "hostility"?

That's true, Holy. I don't think Freddie deserves all the credit for the maternity shit show changes, but yes, was certainly an influence in the way midwives use language in the West.

However, Freddie was talking and campaigning about a personal issue related to their female sex. That's not a thing that men worry about. I didn't see a single man comment on Freddie's situation - it's an irrelevance to them.

So, that's not acceptance, is it?

(also, good point about the money. I do hope Freddie is keeping well, it is a very difficult time to be pregnant just now. I feel for anyone managing labour and newborns and a pandemic - tough gig)

Hi Georgia.

Welcome to Mumsnet.

Hell of a first post!

It’s quite a leap to assume that everyone here has arrived at their position through woeful ignorance. Quite rude, really.

The point that users here were making is that we disagree that it is acceptable to shame gay men for objecting to the homophobia inherent in the concept that a vagina should form part of their sexuality, and that a female bodied person is a gay man.

Did you understand that bit in your leap to shame everyone here?

Your friend may well be lovely, but that’s not what is at issue here. I believe that gay men have the right to assert their social and sexual boundaries as to who and what they are. That is all.

Nobody here hates you, nobody here thinks you are a bad person, nobody here will prevent you from comme ting, but equally, nobody here is going to immediately capitulate to you meaningless platitude to “be kind”. YOU be kind, too, then- be kind to Sheridan and other gay men!

PS, did you ever hear the theory that when there is a “but” in the sentence, everything before it is a lie? your latter post has three paragraphs doing this, it’s a masterpiece of the genre!

I don't think the separate fundraiser for the filming project got as far but Freddy did seek to raise an extra £10k for that.

This, Georgia.

Georgia, please read the thread before throwing about your insults.
Even if its only to seem a bit more grown up.

I suggest you stick around and talk to the women here, because we’ve all been there.

This is true. We have all been there. Takes a lot to see it in ourselves. But once seen it cannot be forgotten.

I, as you can plainly see, am still at the sweary stage of self knowledge

Hi GeorgiaPass, and welcome to MN FWR.

If you came on here advocating for bog standard MRA values you presumably wouldn’t be surprised to encounter a less than welcoming response.

What you need to understand is that the ideology you promote is as hateful in its own way as bog standard MRA ideology. Worse, in some ways, because it’s being touted as “progressive” and given credence and being allowed to inform infinite areas of public policy, at great detriment to women and girls and GNC children. Whereas straightforward MRAs aren’t given the time of day in liberal circles.

I’m presuming that gender identity aside, your sex is female, and the misogyny that is driving you is (tragically) internalised misogyny.

If that’s the case, then I suggest you stick around and talk to the women here, because we’ve all been there.

You could learn a lot from us.

Also, and this is a side issue...but a real bug bear of mine

l I truly apologise - but I'm not taking it back

that's not an apology.

Bad person? Take a deep breath, some are disagreeing with you. Nobody is passing moral judgement on you!

But if you want to continue with the 'losing lives' schtick I might change my mind.

You have been rude. Own it. Telling any group of people to educate themselves or be quiet is rude in anyone's book. To do so on a forum set up for and populated by a group of people you know don't agree with you is astoundingly self centred. Don't start greeting because you were rebuked for it.

And you haven't dared anything. This is an anonymous forum. You need dare nothing.

I am not meaning to insult anyone's intelligence but could argue that by responding to me in this way you have proved your own point - as a non binary person who dared to speak for a member of the LGBTQ community I have been met with hostility.

You could also argue that coming on to a board and using your first post to scold intelligent people and tell them to shut up is rude, sexist (bet you wouldn't approach Piston heads in this way) and likely to get an unfavorable response.

But sure, it's purely bigotry

Georgia - would you be able to comment on what I said? That female NB or TM are not yet accepted into male spaces?

Am i wildly wrong? Is there a camaraderie with you and men and a thriving dating pool of gay men dating TM?

Georgia - where is the hostility?

Don't see it. You're not being agreed with, but I don't see any hate.

Do report it, we don't tolerate transphobia here.