Transman Prinz Chiyo Gomes splits gay community: gay man accused of hate

If MRA’s were cartographers I reckon the area of MN would be labelled “Here be dragons”*

Aka the wild and untamed women of the world, inc those who had to rediscover or fight to gain their freedom again (like me)

*close enough to dinosaurs

Many, many more have learned that their boundaries were messed up, that the relationships they were in were unhealthy or abusive even if physical battery wasn't involved, and learned to be healthier themselves and to look for better and healthier family and personal relationships. I'm one of them. Forever grateful to the relationships board and the women there.

Estimate on a guest post thread the other day that around 6,000 women have left abusive relationships after getting support/info from MN. Actually, I meant to make a post about it.

Women talking to, empowering and informing each other is a powerful, crucial thing. Being treated this way should not be a life sentence for being born with female biology. Identifying out of being female should not be the only way to escape

But those who identify out of being female aren't actually escaping anything though are they?
The difference is that they are not only still and forever oppressed due to the sex they can never escape from, they are also helping to enable men to oppress all other women further with this sexist ideology, that most are too young and naive to realise they are being used.

Women talking to, empowering and informing each other is a powerful, crucial thing. Being treated this way should not be a life sentence for being born with female biology. Identifying out of being female should not be the only way to escape.

I am thankful for the discussion I have had today and I understand your point about how the different gendered stereotypes will affect people no matter what happens.

But you’re right in that this is an ongoing discussion and there needs to be real change.

Mumsnet is the biggest gathering of women in history. Never before have hundreds of thousands of women gathered in one place, exchanging ideas, sharing experiences. It's immensely powerful

And the reason a certain subset of men hate it so much and are so desperate to shut down these boards.
They can't take over here like on Reddit etc.
They know there are thousands of lurkers who can also see through the nonsense. Many thousands who have 'educated themselves' and are saying no.

Thing is @GeorgiaPass, this isn't about individuals. It's not about your mate, or someone's cross-dressing uncle, or someone else's dysphoric coworker.

This is about the political erasure of what biological sex means and what the implications are for women.

This will never benefit women. Acknowledging how sex effects women can only work if legally and politically it has a definition.

Its no coincidence that men identifying as women are known in the public eye for powerful things (winning races, being the first 'female' soldier' director of a trilogy, MP, etc) but the other way round, it's very rare. Women
Identifying as men are largely known for giving birth (not always but nearly).

Biological sex is still being dealt with through sexism, only now, you can't articulate it.

Great response to Georgia, vipers. Georgia, hope you stick around.

This has been a kind of one thread summary of my life on Mumsnet! Arrive a bit green, got shocked by plain speaking unapologetic women, learned a load of stuff, became a plain speaking unapologetic woman some of the time!

I still get taken aback by flat disagreement, and statements that haven't been softened with qualifiers.

Oh this IS nice, welcome Georgia, you will be fine here.

Bloody hell!!!!! This went way better than expected. Nice one Georgia, you actually stuck around to engage with everyone. So often people drop in, insult us, patronise us, tell us to be kind and then fuck off and never come back.

You have engaged magnificently. You are obviously actually interested in conversation which is a breath of fresh air.

I will add that almost EVERY woman on this board started out where you are. I did for sure. It was reading TRA's cries of "educate yourself" not to me to be clear I was fully signed up TWAW, but to others that meant that I went away and "educated myself."

That was 6 years ago and honestly as someone upthread said, (probably Datun) I could honestly write a thesis on it. Our opinions have risen from ENDLESS reading, lots of scientific journals, etc. This place is a hub of intelligent, educated women. Even if they are dinosaurs.

Finally, I know how difficult it is when the people you're closest too are fully immersed in this ideology. Genuinely. We probably run in the same circles, many of my friends are trans, and I've actually seen your friend Prinz perform. He was spectacular! But if they're real friends you should be able to discuss this with them. Years ago a close drag queen friend of mine brought up the potential misogyny in (some) drag acts. He brought it up, not me, but what followed was a wonderful, civilised conversation around that. Real friends listen.

Well, this has been an interesting thread to catch up on. @GeorgiaPass so many of us came here, many name changes ago, with the intention to try and encourage ‘kindness’ and stayed after having our eyes opened.

And putting ^ either side of the text puts it into italics.

For ranting and emphasis purposes!

Seems like you worked it out!

X

Or any other text!!

Or, if you want to just write their name in bold put an asterisk before and after it, a short version will be fine. No spaces though

So Datun

Without the spaces becomes Datun

I just keep making that mistake I’ll get it

GeorgiaPass

When you specifically respond to someone's comment, use the quote function, so people know who you're replying to.

It's the three little dots on the bottom right of the box you're writing in.

If it's greyed out, it means you're trying to quote a comment that is already quoting someone else. You can't do that for some reason.

It’s heartbreaking to think young women like you have been indoctrinated in this belief system that tells you you’re wrong in so many ways. And then tells you that this is feminism!!!

We got indoctrinated with all kinds of bullshit too, and a crucial part of feminism is unpicking the toxic, misogynistic messages you received as a girl/young woman and reclaiming your own intrinsic worth, your own humanity. They used to call it consciousness raising back in the 70’s/80’s.

But the people or forces giving us those messages then were more readily identifiable as the “enemy”: as the forces of oppressive conservatism, sexist men, docile, male-prioritising women, big business, etc. We were the vanguard fighting against that. We were progress. There was a kind of clarity to it. The boss who tried to feel you up was clearly one of Them and the woman friends you got drunk and went on rallies and demo’s with were clearly part of Us.

Now though… the old reactionary forces of woman-blaming, of misogyny, of making female rights and needs subordinate to male desires - those forces are all dressed up as progress now. They tell you they’re the Us you should want to be part of, even while shitting on you and treating you as badly as some men have always treated women, behaving totally like Them.

I think it must be so hard for young women to see clearly with all the gaslighting, all the reversals, all the appeals to your female socialisation dressed up as appeals to your desire to be a Good Human Being. And the pressure on you to be pure! It really is like a religious cult. It seems like you’re guilty by default of Original Sin and have to wash yourself clean in the waters of self abnegation. Constantly checking your privilege and your thinking, to head off any spark of defiance. It must be exhausting.

What you said here, We can be led to feel that our misunderstanding or understanding whichever way you want to look at it is incorrect sometimes, made me think of the activities of the Red Guard - the youth movement during China’s cultural revolution. Which again was the forces of oppression and inhumanity dressed up as “progress”.

I hope you find something better than that here, or if not here, then elsewhere. Because you certainly deserve better than being a handmaiden for a misogynistic male rights movement that would see you sublimate yourself, and your own (and other women’s) needs, to benefit people who already have more power than you.