Transman Prinz Chiyo Gomes splits gay community: gay man accused of hate

Oh right well if I am bad person for commenting on a thread that is open to all I truly apologise - but I'm not taking it back

I did not mean to offend - but we have had all the 'be kind' messages due to other members in the public eye having mental health issues and unfortunately in some cases losing their lives to the feelings this can cause.

I am not meaning to insult anyone's intelligence but could argue that by responding to me in this way you have proved your own point - as a non binary person who dared to speak for a member of the LGBTQ community I have been met with hostility.

I never brought in the comments hating anyone, you have done that yourselves my above comment is one from myself personally and I can imagine that some of you would have said exactly the same if the roles were reversed and I had stated this thread in a positive way.

It is interesting though, the pushback that trans men and female NB people get when they try to join the XY gang.

This person hasn't been accepted by the gay men, despite being placed in the competition.

There was a trans man in a sauna in ?Brighton (probably Brighton) who got kicked out on account of not being male. The TM complained and there was an apology, but it doesn't seem that the TM was then accepted into the Brotherhood Of The Sauna.

I can't think of a single example of a female person with a gender difference who has influenced anything outside the trans community.

Stephen Whittle and James Morton have been very involved with politics and policy more's the pity but only with trans stuff, which is so small it's practically "hobby politics".

Fox Fisher and Dr Ronx have done some media stuff but nothing of real note or influence.

Freddie McConnell has done a lot of complaining but hasn't changed anything (actually, there's a point, was Freddie not supposed to be going to Scandinavia to have a baby so Feddie could be "father" on the baby's birth certificate? I guess that might have been covided, not sure I'd fancy travelling when heavily pregnant or with a newborn during a pandemic that has killed mothers and babies)

So, there's that.

Trans women win awards and make money.

IT's almost as if there is a difference that the men who are in charge of our sexist systems can spot...

Bugger.

And a Zombie thread to boot!

Oh Wimmins of Mumsnet - ye have been told - BE BLOODY KIND!!!!

Well, sweetie, you have lept into something of a woman cave here and we won't be told to play nice, to educate ourselves or to shut the fuck up.

If you want to discuss something try again, without the sermonising, because

transitioning is a huge mentally and physically draining process not to mention an expensive one! So how have we allowed money to define what gender people are? I for one don't think this is a question of gender but of consumerism by (some) healthcare services.

is probably something we could all agree upon, at least partially!

But that would mean you accepting the truth of this place. We don't hate trans people. Nor do we deny their reality, existence etc.

We just want to protect womens rights.

And have sympathy for gay men when they have their world invaded in the same way that women's spaces have been invaded.

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

And your 'kindness' to LGB people is where exactly?

Get stuffed with your 'be quiet'. Truly. Stuff it. How bloody dare you?

If you know what we do about it, please do share? Since the LGBA is constantly under attack, and Stonewall is forcing the idea that you're only LGBT+ if you're politically compliant with the erasure of sex and on board with homophobia. And will force yourself into hetero sex in order to validate someone TQ+ with your body rather than, you know, want bodily autonomy or the right to be homosexual.

Otherwise you're not welcome at pride, or in many LGBT+ captured groups.

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

Zombie-ish thread, but that's it in a nutshell.

Most of the women on this board have 'educated themselves' on these issues quite comprehensively. And yet we still disagree with you on certain things. That being truthful is often more important than being kind, for instance, or that people shouldn't be silenced ('be quiet') for having a different point of view.

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

You could have led with that, would have saved you time.

Never did I think I would be joining Mumsnet to weigh in on a discussion regarding one of my favourite performers and people in the world.

Firstly, his name is Prinx Chiyo so please at least get that right!

For anyone who queried, Chiyo did not win Mr. Gay England but did come second.

I am not going to weigh in on names of other performers however, I am sending a virtual hug to anyone re: Miss Carriage and others in the same vein as I think the room should have definitely been read with that one!

Over the second half of last year I have been blessed (yes blessed) to get to know Chiyo personally and I can confirm that these reactions are valid ones. The way others have treated him simply for taking up space in the world is abhorrent - thank goodness he rose above this and absolutely smashed 2021!

As for the people using his BPD to fuel nasty and hateful comments you should be absolutely ashamed - yes I do agree that disability does not condone certain behaviours, but haven't we all held people in the public eye accountable to answer to criticism? So why is what Chiyo did any different?

This is not about so called 'ideologies' - transitioning is a huge mentally and physically draining process not to mention an expensive one! So how have we allowed money to define what gender people are? I for one don't think this is a question of gender but of consumerism by (some) healthcare services.

Just be kind people - and if you can't please educate yourself or be quiet!

I'm really sorry for Sheridan, and all the many women who have said similar things and been likewise wrongly vilified. As for Chiyo, they have suffered sexual abuse and have a mental health condition, not to mention currently identifying as a man and working as a sex worker, which may well all be as a result of the abuse. As they identify as bisexual, perhaps they have internalised homophobia too? But saying awful things about feminists and redefining biological sex and sexuality is really damaging. Does anybody know if Chiyo won the pageant? The final was on 1st April. If they did, then perhaps more gay men will join gc feminists and wake up.

There appear to be a whole cluster of vulnerabilities here - Chiyo obviously, and Sheridan who is getting it in the neck for simply stating reality, and Sheridan's husband (and, no doubt, his friends and family) who will also get caught up in the vitriol.

As women know, once the witch-hunt starts it's impossible to stop, at least until the next victim steps out of line, intentionally or unintentionally. I do feel for Sheridan, but good on him for standing up for sex-based rights - they matter for men as well as for women - and for calling out the implicit homophobia in Chiyo's actions.

As far as I can gather, the police are not giving him grief and he's got a lot of support, from the LGB community and from women who have been there, done that and are still wearing the t-shirt.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a4200364-Reddit-banning-users-for-sharing-Julie-Bindel-article?msgid=106047965#106047965

I find it a very perplexing ethical issue. Progress will only be made in many areas when minoritised communities and previously silenced voices are heard in public and part of the default structure of leadership and power. But, Nolan still obtains. tbh, I'd be very uneasy about some people being centred as expert witnesses to some topics.

I am aware that the process of being put through the usual scrutiny for some processes is invasive and it has the potential to be intrusive and might be traumatic (depending on the history of some people). It's an ethical conundrum I find it difficult to resolve.

Chiyo's background should be a massive signal to the BBC, to the beauty contest, and to everyone else, that this is an incredibly vulnerable person. I completely understand them wanting to escape womanhood.

However, escaping womanhood simply isn't possible if you are born female, and it damages all women if you insist that it is possible, as Chiyo has done.

I do hope Sheridan and his husband are OK.

It is interesting that one group of people totally recognise that sexual orientation tends to be fixed and is quite keen for the sexual orientation to be respected.

Many people that are heterosexual before transition will often remain attracted to the same type of people ie. male people that are attracted to women before transition tend to continue to be attracted to women after transition. If sexual orientation was seen to be changeable in the same way as their sex identification, the opposite would happen, therefore sexual orientation is known to be fixed unless....

you are in the group of other people who are fully expected to override their sexual orientation to accommodate opposite sex people in a same sex dating pool, like Sheridan (and many other gay and lesbians).

It is a bit of a one way street.

Can Sheridan reportthemfor a homophobic hate crime?

Yes they can, and at this point I suggest they do.

Yes, Google shows me there's at least another drag queen with the name and that JonBenet Ramsey has at times been a bad taste Halloween dress up idea in the US.

@NecessaryScene1

Thank you so much for that link, it was a very thoughtful piece.

I have a couple of gay friends that I'd like to share this with, if only to let them know they're not the only people who think like that - even though they thought they were and that they must be terrible people for thinking like that.

Some friends and I had to report a drag queen who had a name associated with that little beauty queen girl who was murdered in the 90s. Also dressed like a beaten up / zombie US cheerleader, with pigtails.

We all pointed out what bad taste it was on the fb advert. Which was pulled; no idea if the event went ahead or if they're still using that name.

so did I, Fly, but, AFAIK that was just one person - not hoardes of them.

I thought the transman in the gay sauna would be a turning point

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410716-Transman-kicked-out-of-gay-sauna

The child one is odd. Surely such a person is most likely to be a man?

[quote SpaceBatAngelDragon]Not forgetting drag queen "Anna Bortion" and "Malestia Child". But you lot simply have no sense of humour according to Pride :

www.pride.com/comedy/2019/7/19/18-funniest-drag-queen-names#media-gallery-media-7[/quote]
Quote from article.

The 18 queens on this list deserve some extra love because their names will immediately make you laugh (and then in some cases,cringe). So here they are: 18 funny (and punny) names of queens currently in the drag scene.

No. No, I didn't "immediately" laugh at Malestia Child. I just felt revolted at the idea of making a joke about child abuse.

It is bizarre where the BBC felt they should draw the taste and decency line with the names on Drag Race U.K.

AWhorA they considered just fine
Sister Fibrosis they made change their name to Sister Sister

Last series
Cheryl Hole- fine
Crystal Beth- had to shorten it to just crystal

Kinda looks like as long as it's just women that the names are offensive to that's OK.