Unite Unions and Many Other LGBT Organisations Lobby Government to Lower the Age of Consent

And the fact that coercion etc exists in teen relationships is the reason the law is in place, with specific provisions for those situations.

Reducing the age of consent, or making it prosecution no question, are not good ideas.

In England and Wales under 13 is no excuses in law.

(In fact of course loads of sex offences at all at ages happen and there is no response but that's a different problem).

Does anyone know if there are any orgs for gay men looking at the prevalence of underage sex and prostitution?

Given "sex games gone wrong" is already used as a defence by (murdering) men, God help us all if they sweep away all legal constraints about how much physical damage one can consent to.

definitely an end to 16 and 17 year olds marrying

That must be very rare these days anyway? (I'm guessing.)

Personally I would want to look at the data and compare it to marriage in general, how successful such marriages were.

I am uncomfortable with just saying 'they are both 14 so it is ok' especially when you place that in the context of schools rife with misogyny, harassment and abuse.

Yes, people being pressured into sex isn't a new issue by any means, but when you add in the liberalisation of sexual attitudes (I think often a good thing) and having pornography widely available (I'm not a fan of censorship myself), then maybe the Mary Whitehouse types had something of a point about the direction that society was heading in.

Also, kids can be completely unethical bastards.

There does seem to be a significant element within the gay community of men becoming sexually active as teens, and not just with other teens but almost a sense of an initiation, and it seems to be something quite a number of older men look back on without seeing it as problematic. It's not the whole by any stretch but it seems to be enough that it's a known thing, even among those who don't behave that way.

We have a very high profile Senator in Ireland, David Norris who has many times over the years made cases for pedestary as aspirational for young gay male teens. He is in every other way an influence for positive change in Ireland but on this matter I believe he doesn’t fully understand the implications for abuse of the power differential that actually happens in these circumstances and the implications that has on the psychology of the teen. He is totally blinded by his own experiences as a gay teen and cannot see the bigger picture.

Do these organisations have a position on child marriage?

WTF is this worship of the pursuit of orgasm above all

I was thinking the same. Everything seems to boil down to being able to fuck whoever you want with no consequences.

What the actual fuck is happening???

Eliminate all laws and policies that punish or criminalize .. . HIV transmission non-disclosure and exposure

This is so counter productive. Surely this is going to increase the stigma surrounding HIV and make people lose trust?

I am uncomfortable with just saying 'they are both 14 so it is ok' especially when you place that in the context of schools rife with misogyny, harassment and abuse.

100% @gardenbird48!

And then certain activists will be say "look at all these [cough cough] reputable orgs that support xyz thing, you're all just evil old boomer vulva people and completely out of touch, times have changed and you just want uterus folx chained to the kitchen sink because you miss the 1950s" etc etc. And then my head explodes!

Can I just reiterate @MissBarbary's point: wtaf has this got to do with unions?!

Working as a prostitute isn't great for anyone IMO including teen boys.

There does seem to be a significant element within the gay community of men becoming sexually active as teens, and not just with other teens but almost a sense of an initiation, and it seems to be something quite a number of older men look back on without seeing it as problematic. It's not the whole by any stretch but it seems to be enough that it's a known thing, even among those who don't behave that way.

Enough so that those men will often see attempts to stop that kind of thing as almost anti-gay. They see it as an important part of gay male sexuality somehow.

It's a bit of a trope to say that in heterosexual sexual relationships men and women balance out the more extreme sexual tendencies of the other sex to some extent, while in same sex relationships it's as if female sexuality or male sexuality are expressed in an extra intense way. But I would say there is some truth to it and maybe that's where this comes from.

I've been vaguely mulling this over for a bit and it's not really on topic.

I was thinking about how when secondary sort of age girls are sexually coerced, exploited. There is a common response to reject that anything is wrong. To insist that they are in control of what's going on etc. When girls or women are raped there is a common reaction of promiscuity. To take some control back etc. Maybe to minimise what happened to themselves. It's just sex no big deal type thing.

It strikes me that I quite often read about gay men becoming sexually active with older men when they are very young. That having been paid for sex is something that comes up a lot.

These things that I've read always talk about these experiences in positive terms. Feeling attractive. Easy money. It was all great fun. That sort of thing.

I wonder if some of the stuff that gets pushed around consent and sex work, from some men, is an abuse reaction. These histories seem to be raised often to support lowering age of consent/ legal sex work.

I wonder if some of it that same kind of. Minimising but in a different way.

Of course plenty wanting this will be bog standard child abusers.

But I just can't believe that it's that brilliant to have eg your first serious sexual experience with a middle aged bloke in a bog, or to work as a prostitute.

Young boys are vulnerable.

I may be way off the mark though :)

Re not disclosing AIDS, I think you should disclose if you've got a cold or Athletes foot FGS

It's common manners isn't it.

WTF is this worship of the pursuit of orgasm above all.

The age of the other person is a factor with underage sex along with grooming coercion etc etc

Law is couple posts up and CPS has a lot as well

I think if anything the age should be higher, definitely an end to 16 and 17 year olds marrying, and in my opinion the age of the other person should be a factor.

'If people genuinely are relaxed about teenagers of whatever age having sex with each other (and I'm not saying they should be, or that everyone necessarily is) then it would surely make more sense for the law to reflect that and be simple and clear. It's not like it's a hard distinction to make. If a 20-year old gets caught having sex with someone underage they're still breaking the law. It's not like they can say "sorry, I thought I was 15".'

Don't agree at all.
In the UK there is a public interest consideration. In some cases it is not in the public interest to prosecute.

Our age of 16 is already younger than WHO etc recommend.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/contents

The CPS has lots as well.

It is generally not considered to be in the public interest to prosecution older children who are having consensual sex.

Remove the law and it opens the door for abuse.

I'm not sure what the benefits are of either tbh.

If people genuinely are relaxed about teenagers of whatever age having sex with each other (and I'm not saying they should be, or that everyone necessarily is) then it would surely make more sense for the law to reflect that and be simple and clear.

Any law that weakens the protection for under 16s will be abused by predatory adults.

New post by JL on Glinner's site:

A piece of the PIE

Was lowering the age of consent always the endgame?

I don't know if there are no miscarriages of justice. There's no clear indication of exactly what doesn't get prosecuted, or even clear agreement of exactly what justice is. (Two 15-year olds? A 16-year old and a 15-year old? How about two 15-year olds but then one of them turns 16 and they carry on having sex the next day?)

If people genuinely are relaxed about teenagers of whatever age having sex with each other (and I'm not saying they should be, or that everyone necessarily is) then it would surely make more sense for the law to reflect that and be simple and clear. It's not like it's a hard distinction to make. If a 20-year old gets caught having sex with someone underage they're still breaking the law. It's not like they can say "sorry, I thought I was 15".

www.unaids.org/en/resources/fact-sheet

They appropriate words without dissent and hope that the laziness of the political class with allow laws to pass by stealth. We are fortunate in the UK that we have a second house (of Lords) which works (often) in an unaffiliated way. Now everything is under the LGBTQIF+ , the F is my implant and I think you could have it mean feminist or any other F word