Suicide rate of those who have undergone reassignment

@DisgustedofManchester

What Iran trope? Here's an article from the Economist. I fail to see how this is a 'trope'. This is happening to gay people.

www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2019/04/04/why-iran-is-a-hub-for-sex-reassignment-surgery

I’ve just seen an interview on SW News about the appallingly long wait for surgery at the Exeter GIDS. The young TW interviewed said the suicide rate among Trans people is shockingly high and if the waiting list is as long as it is then more doctors NEED to be found!!

I'm just pleased for future generations that it will no longer be seen as a mental disorder for diagnostic purposes. As time goes by the associated stigma of being seen as being a disorder or having a disorder will likely seep out of society which is positive.
Shouldn't the focus be on raising awareness in order to reduce the way mental disorders are seen as a stigma by society rather than just reclassifying a medical condition in order to avoid the stigma?
It also doesn't address the stigma that is still experienced by trans people even after transition.
I'm still not clear what the possibile diagnosis could be if it's not a mental disorder?

I'm given to thinking it's a bit of an urban myth really that there is any large scale feeling amongst today's transitioners, either old or young that it's transpbobic

Well that is certainly what whistleblowers and others who have worked in GIDS services ( including the Tavistock) have reported. that positive affirmation is the model pursued, and that any attempt to investigate reasons and causes is very much frowned upon.

"Over the last two years a number of clinicians have resigned from the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service on grounds of conscience. Five shared their concerns with the Sunday Times. Their testimony suggests that pre-existing mental health problems in young people with gender problems may be overlooked and left untreated. They revealed that GIDS did not sufficiently explore whether children with gender dysphoria might grow up to be gay. Worryingly, a number of children adopted a transgender identity after homophobic bullying"

"The experimental ‘affirmation’ approach advocated by these groups fails to take into account the fluid and changing nature of immature and developing identities, together with the susceptibility of children and young people to suggestion and influence from online sources as well as the peer group and trusted adults in positions of authority. The established global model of care for children with gender dysphoria is a ‘watch and wait’ approach which does not steer a child towards any pre-determined outcome, but recognises developmental change as an intrinsic part of childhood and adolescence" : www.transgendertrend.com/current-evidence/

I'm sure you'll join me in thinking it's a good thing for trans people to move away from being seen as a mental disorder or disorder of any kind really.

Are you saying that it's not a medical condition at all, so doesn't need any medical treatment?

There is a difference between a mental condition and a mental disorder and comes under the banner of neurodiversity along with autism spectrum and sexuality.

Does anyone ever suggest surgical interventions for these conditions? (Apart from in places like Iran where being gay is 'cured' by forcing people to undergo GRS.)

Why is medical treatment required at all for people who are trans? What is it that they are trying to achieve with the medical treatment?

As far as I am aware, the ICD 11 from 2022 will rely much less on looking at being trans as a mental disorder. That fills me full of hope for future generations. The less stigma around a diagnosis the better. It's not to say those future generations won't feel that same acute psychological distress and require the same surgical interventions but, I'm hopeful as a result that their paths through life will be paved with a widespread acceptance.

If it's not a mental disorder, what sort of condition is it which requires a medical diagnosis?

If it is not a mental disorder, what sort of condition is it if it results in psychological distress and requires surgical intervention to relieve this distress?

[quote DisgustedofManchester]Not read all the comments here but as explained by the researcher themself, suicide levels dropped after transition. They dropped in comparison to trans peopel who did not transition. They still stayed above the normal suicide levels of cisgender people.

This myth and others are destroyed here in this interview with Dr. Cecilia Dhejne

www.transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm[/quote]
I'd have been really surprised if they didn't. Comparing post op outcomes of trans people to people who haven't experienced being trans at all would always be likely to lead to a muddying of the waters. My own experience and that of a few of my peers has been positive. I don't think we are unusual in that.

Not read all the comments here but as explained by the researcher themself, suicide levels dropped after transition. They dropped in comparison to trans peopel who did not transition. They still stayed above the normal suicide levels of cisgender people.

This myth and others are destroyed here in this interview with Dr. Cecilia Dhejne

www.transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm

I'm not sure about my the use of a term being indicative of a different approach. I think the approach used then was pretty similar for most of us. Transition was 24 years ago with surgery following and I've always preferred to think of myself as transgender, I don't think it's a new term. It's just how I felt, rather than transsexual which was how I was diagnosed. I felt more comfortable with that description, even then it seemed to carry less stigma. But, I can promise you, the psychological distress which required surgical intervention was no less for my choice of words.

As far as I am aware, the ICD 11 from 2022 will rely much less on looking at being trans as a mental disorder. That fills me full of hope for future generations. The less stigma around a diagnosis the better. It's not to say those future generations won't feel that same acute psychological distress and require the same surgical interventions but, I'm hopeful as a result that their paths through life will be paved with a widespread acceptance.

Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble that much, I got a bit carried away, I'm just interested in what makes you feel you're old school and therefore different from those who experience a similar thing today

My perception is that these days transition is presented in a very different way; to the extent that even explorative psychological counselling is seen as being transphobic. Transgenderism is a different beast to transexualism because it relies on the notion of an inbuilt, internal sense of one's gender, rather than on a physical resolution for severe psychological distress.

The fact that you have used terms such as 'the binary' is indicative of this different approach. contemporary transgenderism comes complete with a whole catalogue of terminology which is indicative of a certain ideological construct/ formation.

Once interventions started to take effect it was more down to the way in which society treated me such as family rejection and the general animosity you can encounter when you don't confirm to the binary

How many of us conform to the " binary"?

If by binary you mean observable sex based characteristics, then that can only ever be expected, because sex is instinctively registered, and can be detected through all manner of outward manifestation: from height and gait, to bone structure, voice, and I'd suggest also an indeterminate but readily noticeable 'other' factor.

that's the crux, isn't it?

Gender is a socially constructed or/and negotiable presentation or expressive style ( which by nature is social), but sex is a measurable and observed reality that lies beneath all gendered presentations.
You cannot blame people for recognising sex.

A relation on my husband's side of the family fully transitioned many years ago. They now, many years later, express regret.

One finds that life and the full gamut of human existential struggle persists even after transition. Life in the world is not just about yourself, but about relationships with other people, and about the world beyond one's own feelings and one's own sense of self.

Gender is socially constructed. Sex is observable and measurable.

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder

The distress is what precedes the transition. The inability to find peace or any sense of functional reality in one's own body.

Haven't said anything about what "sort" of trans person she is, I have merely pointed out that she is wrong to describe being transsexual as a psychological disorder

Surely any extreme dysphoric condition is, by definition, a psychological disturbance. The clue is in the pre-fix 'DYS'

I don't think the prevalence of being transsexual has changed much over the years. The information age has probably seen a rise in year on year incidence as more people have gained knowledge about how they feel and acquired the language and courage to say, 'yes, that is me.' Even so, numbers are still very small. Seeing another trans person during my daily routines is still quite unusual even in a deadly populated area.

As for diagnostic criteria, is progres away from a 'disorder to be avoided if at all possible' really that negative? The criteria as with anything else develop with improved understanding or a condition in a changing world. Our reality isn't unique in that sense. For example, we don't have to go that far back in time to see autistic children being described as having childhood schitzophrenia , the product of 'refrigerator parents.' As their diagnostic criteria developed and their treatment by society allowed them access to the main stream, we'd have never had to look too far for those who claimed their new found rights and freedoms were encroaching on the rights of the 'normal crowd'. So, yes, meanings changing doesn't have to be bad.

As for an ability to relate to the young, I wouldn't say I'm down with the youth but, I really admire them and even though I am a long way from agreeing with everything they say and want, they give me a funny kind of hope. It's clear they aren't going to hide their non conformity in a closet, or restrict themselves in the jacket of a stereotype to spare the comforts of more conservative minds or more to the point to avoid the wrath of even more conservative minds. That is a want for progress that I really do understand.

"It's well-established that transsexualism was manipulated into a transgender umbrella that sought to encompass transvestitism."

Because it would certainly account for the differences we often see. Including the individual experiences related by various trans people.

I don't really see myself as old school because I'm sure the majority of people going through transition today face similar battles with society and themselves to myself

My experience is different. Whilst transsexualism does still exist and I do meet people who experience the same issues as I have I would have said it is very much not the majority.
Diagnostic process has changed radically, diagnostic criteria has changed and indeed even the meaning of trans has changed. To me I simply cannot relate to the average young trans person of today.

It has been on the news how political the Tavistock care has become. I would be quite critical of self-diagnosis of any kind.

Best luck with your holding Steph!

The small holding is looking better every day😊