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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

British Cycling Consultation on Transgender Policy

303 replies

lorisparkle · 25/03/2021 15:47

Thought this might be of interest

www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20201009-British-Cycling-publishes-Transgender-and-Non-Binary-Participation-policy-0

OP posts:
andyoldlabour · 26/03/2021 13:25

I have replied, making the following points:

  1. Comments on the definitions.
    "You constantly conflate sex and gender, when sports should only be categorised by birth sex."

  2. Section 3 membership
    "No male should ever be allowed to compete in female sports. In 2019, when Maxine Blythin was nominated Kent Women's cricketer of the year, Maxine averaged more runs than Don Bradman at his best. Maxine (a human male) was an average club cricketer in the men's leagues. Kate Weatherly was an average male mountain biker in New Zealand. Three months after competing in the men's division, Kate won the New Zealand women's championship, then repeated that the next year. Understandably, women's participation in this event declined."

Section 4 recreational activity
"Everyone can take part in recreational activity, regardless of their sex or gender identity."

Section 5 Competition
"If you allow human males to compete against human females, then you will put all human females at a disadvantage, thus contradicting your own policy.
Testosterone levels are a complete "red herring", because they ignore all the physical advantages that going through a male puberty confers on the human body - larger heart and lungs, longer/stronger/denser bones, more lean muscle mass, less body fat, more efficient cardio vascular system, more oxygen carrying red blood cells."

Any other comments
"The fact that you have only mentioned transgender athletes competing in the female category, means that you are totally aware that very few if any female to male transgender athletes will be competing in the sport, which confirms that male athletes will always have an advantage over female athletes.
If you continue on this course, then you will be responsible for the destruction of female participation in British Cycling."

andyoldlabour · 26/03/2021 13:17

I am so disgusted by this, beyond words. The conflation of sex and gender. No scientific facts, no mention of fairness, this is even worse than Joanna Harper's 2015 study.
The following is stupid beyond belief.

1.Definitions: Birth Gender: the gender that a person is assumed to be when they are born. This is usually based on the Sex they are assigned at birth.

Gender: the social, and cultural construction of what it means to be a man or a woman, including roles, expectations and behaviour.

Gender Identity: a person’s internal, deeply felt sense of self, for example, a man, a woman, or a Non-Binaryperson. A person’s Gender Identity may or may not correspond with their Sex.

Non-Binary: where an individual does not identify as being part of the binary gender (male or female).

Self-Identified Gender: the gender that the person identifies as, opposed to that which is assigned at birth, their ‘Birth Gender’.

Sex: a person’s biological and physical characteristics, defined usually as either ‘male’ or ‘female’ and including indeterminate Sex.

Transgender: a person whose Gender Identity is different from their physical Sex at birth. Those people who, as defined by the Equality Act 2010, share the protected characteristic of gender reassignment and are described as transsexual people under the legislation.

gardenbird48 · 26/03/2021 10:31

well, I've submitted. I like cycling and DD is quite athletic and wants to join various clubs post lockdown. Let's hope they want her and haven't decided to ignore her needs and interests and prioritise another group entirely.

nothingcomestonothing · 26/03/2021 10:22

Done, emphasising safeguarding and the actual protected characteristics under the Equailty Act. Feel like I could write this stuff in my sleep at this point, having filled in so many surveys/consultations/calls for evidence which all make the same mistakes. Funny that, isn't it? Almost like they have all been given the same misinformation...

Quadzilla · 26/03/2021 09:59

It really is guff. I'm so glad the first questions is what do you think of the definitions. Meaningless, BC, utterly meaningless.

gardenbird48 · 26/03/2021 09:50

From the BC Transgender Policy:

Definitions:
Birth Gender: the gender that a person is assumed to be when they are born. This is usually based on the Sex they are assigned at birth.
Gender: the social, and cultural construction of what it means to be a man or a woman, including roles, expectations and behaviour.
Gender Identity: a person’s internal, deeply felt sense of self, for example, a man, a woman, or a NonBinary person. A person’s Gender Identity may or may not correspond with their Sex.
Medical Professional: a person qualified to provide medical treatment to an individual.
Non-Binary: where an individual does not identify as being part of the binary gender (male or female).
Participant: any person participating in an Event or other cycling related activity promoted or administered by British Cycling, including but not limited to any Member, Affiliate, Spectator, Licensee Volunteer or Contractor from time to time;
Recreational Activity: any non-competitive British Cycling organised activity, including but not limited to; the Breeze programme, Guided Ride, and Let’s Ride Pop-up.
Self-Identified Gender: the gender that the person identifies as, opposed to that which is assigned at birth, their ‘Birth Gender’.
Sex: a person’s biological and physical characteristics, defined usually as either ‘male’ or ‘female’ and including indeterminate Sex.
Transgender: a person whose Gender Identity is different from their physical Sex at birth. Those people who, as defined by the Equality Act 2010, share the protected characteristic of gender reassignment
and are described as transsexual people under the legislation.

I am embarrassed for the person who wrote that load of utter tosh.

They even have the audacity to say that transgender people are described and as Transsexual people under the EA 2010 - they are not. That is such a Stonewallism - 'the law hasn't quite caught up with us so we will redefine it ourselves'.... Talk about entrenching societal sex based stereotypes!!

Quadzilla · 26/03/2021 08:54

@lorisparkle is it worth asking MNHQ to amend you title to be a little more explicit e.g. British Cycling opens consultation into Transgender policy

As the consultation is open to anyone, it's worth trying to get as many posters who are into sport to give their views.

CousinKrispy · 26/03/2021 08:39

It looked like the actual survey for me, not a preview survey. Thanks for sharing.

Taswama · 25/03/2021 22:12

Thanks for flagging this.

Quadzilla · 25/03/2021 21:53

In this document they appear to be quite concerned by the lack of men in their organisation.

[[https://www.womeninsport.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Diversity-Action-Plan-May-2019-1.pdf]{

Biscuitsanddoombar · 25/03/2021 21:52

Just had a quick rummage through Women in sport. They look to be pretty good - lots of clear statements about the lack of women’s representation in on sporting bodies, talking about issues around menopause, concerns about the drop out rate in teenage girls

www.womeninsport.org/

RedDeerRunning · 25/03/2021 21:43

Anyone know anything about the views of Women In Sport and the Women's Sport Trust?

Never heard of either.. Presume they're as irrelevant and toothless as Fawcett and WEP?

MichelleofzeResistance · 25/03/2021 21:41

Women will end up having to start new organisations from scratch and somehow find some way to name themselves that hasn't yet been taken from them and start all over.

Victorious destruction of women's sports.

Quadzilla · 25/03/2021 21:32

It kept coming up when I looked on my phone but I’ve just filled it in in the PC and didn’t have any issues.

BigHuff · 25/03/2021 21:24

@Quadzilla

Its live, I've just completed it. When that pop up comes up you can click past it.
Yes, but there's still a big banner at the top saying "survey preview" and the address has "preview" in it. I don't know if it's saving the answers or if they're just vanishing into the ether!
Quadzilla · 25/03/2021 21:11

Its live, I've just completed it. When that pop up comes up you can click past it.

FeckinCat · 25/03/2021 20:58

@BigHuff

I don't think the survey is live yet? While you do appear to be able to give answers, there's a warning stating "This survey preview allows you to see what respondents will see when they take the survey. No data will be collected or saved."

So maybe wait to fill it in!!

I missed that!

Thanks for the heads-up. Flowers

BigHuff · 25/03/2021 20:52

I don't think the survey is live yet? While you do appear to be able to give answers, there's a warning stating "This survey preview allows you to see what respondents will see when they take the survey. No data will be collected or saved."

So maybe wait to fill it in!!

Standrewsschool · 25/03/2021 20:50

Just as an aside, just watched the documentary, Lance, on iplayer. Very interesting.

Standrewsschool · 25/03/2021 20:48

@EndoplasmicReticulum

I don't feel I can complete the consultation sadly as I'd have to identify as being able to ride a bike!
You don’t have to be a current cyclist to complete it. It’s open to everyone.
FeckinCat · 25/03/2021 20:25

I've filled in the consultation.

As a BC club welfare officer, I'm appalled at the idea of mixed sex changing rooms. How on earth could I take my safeguarding role seriously, knowing that our riders would be expected to use mixed sex changing rooms?

And then having to pretend that it's fair for our female riders to race against boys? Not a chance. Even during training sessions, you can see the differences in the time trials. Girls who are at the top end for their age group would trail behind even an average teenage boy.

It's yet another example of exclusion (of girls and women) being re-labeled as inclusion (of men and boys).

GonadTheGaul · 25/03/2021 18:40

I can't believe they've actually opened a consultation on this, I thought it would never happen!

For anyone who wants some references for the competitive aspect of the policy, try these, they're all open access:

Muscle Strength, Size, and Composition Following 12 Months of Gender-affirming Treatment in Transgender Individuals.
Wiik A. et al
J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2020); 105: 1–9

Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage.
Emma N. Hilton, Tommy R. Lundberg
Sports Medicine doi.org/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3

How does hormone transition in transgender women change body composition, muscle strength and haemoglobin? Systematic review with a focus on the implications for sport participation
Harper J. et al
Br J Sports Med doi:10.1136/bjsports-2020-103106

Here's why World Rugby say transwomen can't compete with women:
playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/?subsection=5
play.acast.com/s/realscienceofsport/whyrugbyscontroversialnewtransgenderguidelinesmakesenseforallsportingcodes

Callmejudith · 25/03/2021 17:58

Completed. Horrified by the policy.

flyingfoxkins · 25/03/2021 17:58

Well I get really cross about this stuff. Its hard enough to encourage teenage girls to stick in sport, and thats before we look at the locker room issue, without making it even harder. There are sports where it doesnt matter like equestrianism, but in cycling mens bodies will always have the advantage over women with strength and stamina. I`ve not seen any studies which suggest different.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 25/03/2021 17:53

I don't feel I can complete the consultation sadly as I'd have to identify as being able to ride a bike!

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