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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It is unacceptable for me to feel that I don’t like men?

266 replies

OliverBabish · 25/03/2021 13:22

I got asked by my boss if I “hate men” - he’s not my boss anymore thankfully but my honest response is that I don’t like men very much. I’m not being an arse about it either - I’ve married a man, I’m aware there are ‘good men’ or whatever - that is truly how I feel.

Ignorant of me but I didn’t even know misandry was a thing (or that there was a word for it) until really recently.

Experience (and my job) has shown me time and time again that men are far more of a problem in our day to day society than women. I know I’d probably get into loads of trouble at work if I actually voiced that opinion, but generally speaking, is it that unacceptable for me to feel this way? Am I wrong to think like this? It doesn’t affect how I treat men, it’s just how I feel.

OP posts:
OliverBabish · 26/03/2021 10:51

@Theswitch

I think it’s easy to say you don’t like men when you have daughters.

I disagree with you 100% and think it’s a shocking statement but you can’t help the way you feel. I think this is going backwards, I wish there was less of an us v then when it comes to sex, race, religion, etc. But maybe I’m naive!

Perhaps. I worry for my daughters a lot though (in terms of their safety as they move further through the world) and I think if I were a mother to a boy that I would worry in a different way. I wouldn’t be a horrible mother to a boy... it’s not like that. I wouldn’t love him less.
OP posts:
Theswitch · 26/03/2021 10:34

I think it’s easy to say you don’t like men when you have daughters.

I disagree with you 100% and think it’s a shocking statement but you can’t help the way you feel. I think this is going backwards, I wish there was less of an us v then when it comes to sex, race, religion, etc. But maybe I’m naive!

Elsiebear90 · 26/03/2021 10:31

I don’t like men as a whole, I know that there a good men, I love my father and my brother, I think my brother in law is a good man, my grandad and great grandad were good men. Just on the whole I don’t like men because they pose me too much of a threat and I can’t trust them.

I’m a lesbian, I did date men when I was younger (was closeted) and I’ve found that not having a romantic interest in men and dating women instead has opened my eyes to poor behaviour that is often tolerated and justified in heterosexual relationships and sexual encounters that you just don’t tend to experience with women.

QuentinWinters · 26/03/2021 10:27

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QuentinWinters · 26/03/2021 10:22

Should say its about experience not statistics Confused

QuentinWinters · 26/03/2021 10:22

If I (or anyone else) said I don't like black people because they statistically commit more crime, we'd be lynched as racists.
Except noone has said they don't like men because they statistically commit more crime. We've said various things about how we individually feel about men based on our own personal experiences of living with and interacting with men.

I like a lot of men. I don't dislike men as a group and I don't hate men as a group.

I'm wary of men I don't know and I'm distrustful of them. Because my personal experience is they are quite likely to secually assault me, harass me or stalk me. It's not about experience.

Incidentally all those men have been white.

OliverBabish · 26/03/2021 10:19

@FixTheBone

Wow. just wow.

If I (or anyone else) said I don't like black people because they statistically commit more crime, we'd be lynched as racists.

Misandry is a thing, and it's just as wrong as misogyny.

I don’t see the two things as equal in comparison.

On the most basic level, say that black people do statistically commit more crime, that would have more to do with the socioeconomic status they’ve been given and trapped in due to systemic racism.

In my opinion, men have the upper hand in every single way. Me not liking men is very different to racism.

OP posts:
GammyLeg · 26/03/2021 10:14

“If you said you didn't like black people it would be unacceptable so whys this any different?“

Please don’t use POC to make a point. It’s a false equivalence anyway - black people don’t disproportionately rape, murder and oppress people the way men do.

I think it’s fair enough OP. I don’t dislike men but I’m constantly disappointed by them. I have a lot of strong female friends, the men I know pale in comparison.

FixTheBone · 26/03/2021 10:12

Wow. just wow.

If I (or anyone else) said I don't like black people because they statistically commit more crime, we'd be lynched as racists.

Misandry is a thing, and it's just as wrong as misogyny.

ArabellaScott · 26/03/2021 10:09

FWIW I have a male family member who feels the same as you do, OP. He has arrived at this position due to extensive experience observing in courts. It is a sad position, but one could say it is fairly logical.

OliverBabish · 26/03/2021 10:06

I shudder to think about having the same conversations that I have with DH with some of my former partners. It just wouldn’t happen.

OP posts:
OliverBabish · 26/03/2021 10:01

@SleepingStandingUp I can’t speak for others but I know that it’s been something that is pretty much constantly discussed in one way or another in our marriage. Both DH and I work on the “frontline” of public service and so many of our conversations start from something that’s happened at work that day. That then sort of feeds into the ongoing bigger discussion of the imbalance that exists between his sex and mine. He’s fully aware of how I feel - I don’t trash him, but I do highlight things as and when they come up. And he sometimes might challenge me on it - it’s a healthy, realistic discourse. I think it helps that DH sees things on a daily basis that reinforce why I feel the way I do.

OP posts:
SleepingStandingUp · 26/03/2021 09:50

For those currently married Inc @OliverBabish how do you align being married with fundamentally disliking the essence of who your partner is? Is it well mine is different or well I try to overlook his deficiencies to keep the family together?
What about children - son's, grandsons? I'm not sure what kind of relationship my boys could have with a relative disliked them on principle of their penis, even of they made efforts to not act it out

HoldontoOneMoreDay · 26/03/2021 09:39

'Love men, couldn't eat a whole one though' is my stock answer to this as a pp said, or 'some of my best friends are men' if I think the person asking will get the allusion.

But really. Noone's asking men 'why do you hate women', are they? And they must hate us because they murder us and rape us and harass us and discriminate against us. So why is women's very sensible response to that a problem?

ArabellaScott · 26/03/2021 09:26

OP, you're entitled to feel however you feel about whatever you feel.

Thoughts, emotions, feelings are yours and yours alone.

There are plenty of rules, laws and regulations about how we interact with others, which is as it should be. We shouldn't and aren't allowed to discriminate against people or act badly.

How we feel is up to us.

ArabellaScott · 26/03/2021 09:24

I agree. Honestly if I was at the point where my boss asked if I hate men (assuming it's not completely out of the blue, but it doesn't sound like it is), I'd have to ask myself some serious questions about my behaviour at work. You're entitled to your feelings but they should never cross over into a professional environment in that way imo.

What a weird take. If my boss asked me that question I would be asking myself serious questions about my boss.

ChiefBabySniffer · 26/03/2021 09:17

Also, yes I am married to a man but i B only tolerate him in small doses. We live in a very cheap area so have two properties. He stays at his 3-5 times a week. I love my house and can never imagine living with a man full time again. I value my peace and sleeping well at night too much.

ChiefBabySniffer · 26/03/2021 09:15

I grew up in a very male dominated society. Think living on the premises of parents business and the only customers where men. 100+ a day, some regular, some I never saw again. I went through puberty in that place. All boobs and long blonde hair and so much confidence.

From age 12 around 90% of those men totally ignored me. Blanked me like I didn't exist. 9.9% of those men would flirt with me, try to seduce me and persuade me to go out with them (I did with a few) and some were very blatantly sexual and assaulted me. I can still remember the 5 regular men that treated me with respect, tried to explain to me that I was being used by these men and was worth more and would actively point out to the other men that I was underage and they needed to get a grip and stop being so gross. My parents didn't care.

I left that place at 18 and had had consensual sex (albeit underage so stat rape) with more men than I could remember. I had been raped and assaulted by more men than I could remember. If I'm honest, it was the very first rape that triggered the promiscuity. I was desperate for some form of control and felt by choosing who I was with I would have autonomy and some level of protection.

The men I met after wards were no better. My first employer in a pub physically forced me to undo my to three buttons as " I'd been hired for the EEs and his customers wanted to see them ". The next was a pizza shop where I was forced to go down on a driver in a stock room.

I don't mix with men by choice. Will make polite small talk in a pub if I'm at the bar with my Husband or several friends etc. But over all, men seem to hate my confidence. I'm very defiant by nature. To this day none of the abuse or rape has broken me. I walk tall but it's like the predators still smell the old scars and so I just don't mix with them anymore. I keep my circle small and am an fierce radical feminist.

hellcatspangle · 26/03/2021 08:38

I’ve been very happily married for 25 years and I don’t like many men. It’s no reflection on how much I love my DH.
You see my DH isn’t a murdering , raping, leering misogynist bastard.

Neither are lots of other men 🤷🏼‍♀️

NiceGerbil · 25/03/2021 23:23

@OliverBabish

Oh god I’d never broadcast it at work. My former boss asked me in the context of “oh god, you’re not into all that feminist crap are you?” when it was the American elections. It was just casual conversation but the actual question of “do you hate men?” really made me go Confused I said no, because I don’t hate anybody

I just don’t really like men all that much. Easy for me to have this POV when I have no men in my family apart from DH.

I don’t treat anyone any differently, if anything I think I’ve overcompensated in certain situations.

Yes I've had this as well.

The fact that some men react to a woman saying she is a feminist gets the response 'do you hate men' is I think potentially a more interesting point of discussion.

That IME a fair number of men respond to comment about men as a group, mention of stuff like gender pay gap, being a feminist, with 'do you hate men'.

That is a more extreme reaction than having multiple experiences which have left you wary etc.

Thelnebriati · 25/03/2021 23:17

''I dont like'' =/= hate.

I have had a lot of various negative experiences with different men, including men who told me they loved me.
As a result, I don't automatically like the majority of men. I no longer trust them without a good reason.
I don't hate men.

MissBarbary · 25/03/2021 22:57

@malloo

The way you feel about people is obviously shaped by your experiences and if most of your experiences of men have been negative or worse then I can see how you would feel like that. Just a quick look around Mumsnet shows you some shocking examples of men's behaviour and attitude. But from my own perspective, I don't feel like that. I'm lucky I suppose, the vast majority of men I know are nice, decent human beings. I've definitely come across bad ones but they're very much the minority.
Same here.
flyingfoxkins · 25/03/2021 22:45

@malloo

The way you feel about people is obviously shaped by your experiences and if most of your experiences of men have been negative or worse then I can see how you would feel like that. Just a quick look around Mumsnet shows you some shocking examples of men's behaviour and attitude. But from my own perspective, I don't feel like that. I'm lucky I suppose, the vast majority of men I know are nice, decent human beings. I've definitely come across bad ones but they're very much the minority.
Same. Maybe we`re just lucky. I have worked with women who have been badly abused by men and I can absolutely see why they felt as they did. I wonder too, if having a good relationship with your father makes a difference as its the first experience you have.
NiceGerbil · 25/03/2021 22:39

This reply has been deleted

This repeats a message we have now deleted so we are taking this down too

NiceGerbil · 25/03/2021 22:35

'I got asked by my boss if I “hate men” - he’s not my boss anymore thankfully but my honest response is that I don’t like men very much. '

I've been asked this quite a few times! Usually when talking about sex offences, metoo, structural inequality etc. And actually now I think of it quite a few times when all I've said is I'm a feminist!

The bar to be accused of man hating is vv low and the bar to be accused of woman hating (not even a term I've seen used!) is very very high.

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