It is unacceptable for me to feel that I don’t like men?

Not fully caught up yet.

Just scrolling back to find where I was and saw that a man saying whatever would be sacked.

Just remembered a man at work saying

Yeah well the thing is that men never grow up. We're irresponsible and lazy. That's why we get to do the fun stuff and the women's job is to do the organising.

Then he smirked.

I don't remember him being sacked. Or anyone even raising an eyebrow.

Just to respond again to your post, if this website had named accounts and a man said half of these things about women they'd be disciplined at work, if not sacked
Thats hilarious. I've seen men say worse than this on work systems and still not be sacked. Sometimes people are reluctant to even speak to them.

Also, just to say, as a woman of colour I am very much against CRT and unconscious bias training etc.
Yeah. My previous employer did it very well, by talking about human psychology, in groups and outgroups etc and never once talking about particular characteristics and biases.
I too am slightly wary about unconscious bias. I'm sure people do unconsciously categorise people based on stereotypes because that's how human brains develop and work. But I think the kind of people who display their prejudice in indirect interactions are probably on the whole aware somewhat of their bias and justify it. I personally would far rather that employers didn't tolerate bias or signs of bias, rather than saying it can be "unconscious". Think that can be a get out of jail free card for idiots.
Anyway, derail but I was interested in the point you made.

[quote allthecarrotcake]@MissBarbary

Just to respond again to your post, if this website had named accounts and a man said half of these things about women they'd be disciplined at work, if not sacked. [/quote]
Have you been over to piston heads, have you ever looked on Twitter or reddit before the current furore? Men aren't even removed from these spaces for making rape or death threats at women.
In fact do you ever go onto Male dominated spaces (pretty much the rest of the internet) and take them to task for the blatant misogyny? If not, why not?

And I too have yet to meet one I would emulate.

Some of the pps here who appear horrified by "misandry" and the thought of women not liking men as a group are (deliberately?) missing the point here. The dislike of men as a group women are voicing on this thread isn't based on irrational prejudice and hatred towards anyone with a penis, but on typical, common behaviours of many men. At least in my mind, we're talking issues of male socialisation here - or toxic masculinity or whatever you want to call it.

Yes, men being sexually predatory or in some other way domineering over women is very common. And yes, #notallmen. But honestly, I think many women are afraid to look too closely at this uncomfortable fact and/or would rather excuse it through myths about male psychology than face up to it.

Still, I have gay male friends that don't behave in domineering ways towards women. One straight male friend I can say the same about. He's Scandinavian and has a very feminist wife, both factors I believe makes a difference!

I feel scared of men for my own reasons but I don’t dislike men, I know there are nice ones but I avoid them because they’re scary to me.

@NiceGerbil

Cowbells can I ask you a couple of questions?

OP was in a conversation with a bloke about trump and said something which led him to ask if she was into all that 'feminist crap'.

She presumably made some kind of noise in the affirmative and he said 'do you hate men?'

In my read of that the man is

Starting from a certain not very open angle (a woman talking about ? Trump and women) means she is into 'feminist crap'

And then given some kind of affirmative (after he'd put her in a bit of a bind- say no no of course not and in the process sort of back off on whatever the original point was, or agree that she is into something he has strongly stated is crap)

Then when she goes with the latter leap to asking her if she hates men. So he clearly is assuming certain negative things about a whole group (feminists).

To me his side seems way more broad brush and unpleasant than hers.

Just occurred to me.

I've had this said to me before on men finding out I have feminist leanings.

It could go

Trump pussy grab abortion blah
Oh are into all that feminist crap
Erm well yes/yes a bit/I think the trump stuff is important
So. do you hate men.
No. Do you hate women

I simply cannot imagine that happening. I dread to think how the man would react!

I have found that speaking gently (my generally preferred emotional state, not one put on to soothe a male ego) and taking the question seriously (again, my preferred response to anyone who asks something antagonistic, as usually there is fear behind antagonism) allows for a brief, no antagonistic chat which clears up some misconceptions and allows the previously aggressive man to either show interest and back down, or show his true colours as a bigoted tosser, in which case I drop him from all bit the most necessary social transactions.

This is really interesting.

I don’t dislike men per se (am married to one). But I dislike the way they are always put on a pedestal, boys too.

I generally find that most men are either a bit arrogant or a bit useless or self-entitled or emotionally stunted. Or a combo of all of the above.

I have yet to meet a man who I would like to be like (if I were a man).

I just find most of them so boringly predictable and immature now. Like a pp said, under evolved, like cavemen

I work in quite a male dominated environment and honestly I'm just tired of men. I'm tired of listening to their opinions

They're only any good for shagging really. Warmer than a vibrator

I feel the same, nine times out of ten I find my interactions with them at best boring or disappointing and at worst abusive

I don't like men as a class

I do like some men but they are few and far between, and I wouldnt pick them out for company over other women

I dislike men very much

Keep having these conversations with friends and then realising some of them have sons!

Also, yes I am married to a man but i B only tolerate him in small doses

There's no possibility of my meeting any on here in real life but if I did and the conversation went along the lines above I'd make my excuses and leave.

Fair enough. What if I said I don't like black people
No one would care unless and until you actively discriminate against them.

With regards to men being under evolved...Nature puts its best into females as they gestate and care for offspring.

And yes that includes gay men for me.

Well it would be more like a black person saying they dont like white people.
If black people would rather avoid white people because of bad experience I cant see the problem or say I would blame them.
We're not going around discriminating against men and telling them to their faces we dont like them..
Im not anyway, I just choose not to seek them out or be around them when I can help it.

Michelle I know exactly what you mean.

If someone makes an issue of my skin colour or my name, that's different. If I sense they don't want to be friendly, but they are polite, that's fine.

I’m interested to know, those who dislike/don’t trust/are wary of men (and I do understand why), do you include gay men in that? Or is it less the case with them?
As in, is it because of experiences of sexual harassment and attitudes towards women, or also other attitudes that are prominent amongst men?

As a lesbian, if I meet someone who doesn't agree with or approve of gay people, so long as they don't feel the need to explain it to me, use it as a reason to block me from things and generally have to be a twat about it, I'll just live around them.

Their likes, dislikes, personal feelings and prejudices are their problem. Live and let live. I don't agree with them, they don't agree with me, we're grown ups and we don't have to force this to a resolution or call each other names.

There is a difference between personal choice and preference, and acting in a prejudicial way. I've known gay men who don't particularly like women as a class or have any interest in their company. I've had lesbian friends who prefer separatist lifestyles. Neither went around the world acting in prejudicial ways and expressing loathing and prejudice against a sex class (misogyny and misandry): they just made choices and lived by preferences.

The two are getting blurred, and it is becoming regarded as some kind of social duty to control and dictate your emotions and choices by what is seen as politically good. It's quite an elitist political group who see these views as superior, and look down on those who won't fulfil them, and it's beginning to spread to a belief that women's rights to choose who accesses their bodies and their right to say no even should be predicated by the woman's political and social duty regardless of her feelings. I'm deeply bloody uncomfortable with this.

It's the kind of thing Gilbert and Sullivan were mocking in Victorian society over a century ago.

Oh is there not one maiden breast
who does not feel the moral beauty
of making wordly interest
subordinate to sense of duty?