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Feminism and Buffy the Vampire Slayer

40 replies

TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 21:19

Fluff thread inspired by a recent discussion on do feminists fancy evil men.

I'm outing myself as a massive Buffy fan, but I think the series despite being written by Joss Whedon, has some great feminist moments both on screen and off. What's your favourite feminist moment in Buffy?

I'll start. I love how series 7 ends with Buffy as an Artemis figure, single, beautiful deadly and not needing a man to discover herself.

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HumphreyCobblers · 24/03/2021 22:09

I watched the whole of Buffy with my daughter when she turned twelve and it was a glorious thing! She got as into it as I have always been and it prompted many useful discussions. It was so nice sharing it with her.

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TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 22:04

And Charisma Carpenter has proved herself very brave. Good to see a lot of the rest of the cast backing her.
I remember reading that she was sacked for being pregnant back in the day and not being surprised (because I had a nice case of internal misogyny going on)

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TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 21:56

ShockFaith in general. Needs no one, all around bad ass and in my ever unpopular opinion - the far superior slaterShock

I'm afraid I can't agree with that haha. I think Faith is a very rich character with an awesome character arc though.

She and Buffy definitely have daddy issues though.

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imalmostthere · 24/03/2021 21:52

Cordelia. How she starts off as a rich, superficial daddy's girl, and becomes a fierce independent woman by the end of Angel. Her character arc is like no other that I've seen in a programme. She is so beautifully portrayed by charisma carpenter, and she's stayed with me always.

Faith in general. Needs no one, all around bad ass and in my ever unpopular opinion - the far superior slater 😬

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TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 21:50

I think the feminism of Buffy is absolutely flawed.
But that's why it's a good talking point. I plan to use Xander's possessive aggressive friend zoning of Buffy as a talking point to D's about boundaries and consent. (It'll be a while, D's can't talk yet).

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HumphreyCobblers · 24/03/2021 21:46

I love Buffy so much but the older I get the more I wonder about feminism in relation to it. Perhaps that is just because of the sad revelations about Joss Whedon.

But there were lots of women winning fights so that was definitely positive!

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TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 21:43

Haha true, although I was thinking of name hanging to Buffythebadfeminist in honour of the fancying evil men thread.

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TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 21:40

I get the gloss thing.
However, I think something that makes it a feminist show was how SMG put her foot down and won.
Like in series 1 it was all short skirts till she argued that was stupid for someone fighting everyday, so Buffy by season 3 has a much more practical wardrobe.
And I defy anyone to watch The Body and not see how raw and unglamorous it is.

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CrossPurposes · 24/03/2021 21:39

@TheBuffster
"I'm outing myself as a massive Buffy fan"

You're called TheBuffster Smile

Anyway, Becoming Part 2:

Angelus: Now that's everything, huh? No weapons. No friends. No hope. Take all that away and what's left?

He tries to strike her with the sword. She catches it.

Buffy: Me.

GrumpyHoonMain · 24/03/2021 21:39

@TheBuffster

Ohh that's an interesting perspective on Drusilla. I always read her as an abuse victim (Angel's) who gained her own twisted agency. I think her killing Kendra and torturing Giles were some of the most powerful vampire moments of the show.

Yes to the Angel metaphor and how that carried on more realistically non the character of Parker (who I swear I dated at university)

Juliet Landau did another vampire project recently, a grown up one. It's called a place amongst the dead but I have not seen it.

Druscilla and Spike were great because he loved her exactly for what she was, and you don’t often see a male character do that. Let alone a villain. His relationship with Angel / Angelus was great too and I wish they explored the bisexual / pansexual part of this relationship rather than pander to viewing audiences by turning willow into a lesbian so suddenly.

James Masters and Juliet Landau were definitely the best actors on the show.

AssassinatedBeauty · 24/03/2021 21:37

What I appreciate now looking back is a show with many female characters, fully fledged and not just talking about boys and their relationships with them.

It's also the idea that you could make a superhero of a 16 year old girl and not make it a joke or somehow belittle her. She did what she wanted and she saved the world, a lot.

GrumpyHoonMain · 24/03/2021 21:35

@zzizzer

I have to admit I always had ambivalent feelings to Buffy. I mean, it was well made, glossy, funny - I watched it and think I made it all the way through, all my friends and I were into it.

But there was also something I didn't (and don't like about it), and I honestly don't know what it is. I also never found it feminist or empowering, (despite the explicit themes) and I'm not sure why. Discovering that Joss Whedon was a typical Hollywood creep didn't throw any light on it either.

I appreciate that this is almost an entirely pointless comment Grin

I get what you’re saying. I stopped watching after while when the story became a bit of a pile up on buffy.

In terms of feminism Firefly was probably better but that’s probably only because the show was cancelled before JW could dumb it down

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TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 21:33

Ohh that's an interesting perspective on Drusilla.
I always read her as an abuse victim (Angel's) who gained her own twisted agency. I think her killing Kendra and torturing Giles were some of the most powerful vampire moments of the show.

Yes to the Angel metaphor and how that carried on more realistically non the character of Parker (who I swear I dated at university)

Juliet Landau did another vampire project recently, a grown up one. It's called a place amongst the dead but I have not seen it.

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zzizzer · 24/03/2021 21:30

I have to admit I always had ambivalent feelings to Buffy. I mean, it was well made, glossy, funny - I watched it and think I made it all the way through, all my friends and I were into it.

But there was also something I didn't (and don't like about it), and I honestly don't know what it is. I also never found it feminist or empowering, (despite the explicit themes) and I'm not sure why. Discovering that Joss Whedon was a typical Hollywood creep didn't throw any light on it either.

I appreciate that this is almost an entirely pointless comment Grin

GrumpyHoonMain · 24/03/2021 21:22

Angel turning to Angelus after she slept with him was a masterstroke. Men do become abusive after they catch you. Druscilla was the feminist icon for me though. She was unapologetically herself and I wish the actress could have gotten a bigger role but she was probably far too good for the show.

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