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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reddit banning users for sharing Julie Bindel article

483 replies

Cwenthryth · 23/03/2021 17:57

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1374372934379204608?s=21
Julie Bindel has shared on Twitter that Reddit is banning any mention or sharing of her Spectator article & banning users for discussion Aimee Challenor/Knight as well.

Here’s the spec article
www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-green-party-s-growing-contempt-for-women-s-rights

Reddit banning users for sharing Julie Bindel article
Reddit banning users for sharing Julie Bindel article
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Childrenofthestones · 01/04/2021 17:41

Sorry my post above was meant for the little victories thread 😳

Childrenofthestones · 01/04/2021 17:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RoyalCorgi · 01/04/2021 16:06

Reddit still promoting misogyny and porn:

annaslatz.medium.com/why-does-this-keep-happening-190013e8a55b

RoyalCorgi · 01/04/2021 15:07

Amol Rajan sounded engaged with the subject but the omissions were jarring. Odd.

BBC, innit?

Xanthangum · 01/04/2021 10:13

I heard that too @nauticant

My charitable thought was that it might have been recorded after they started getting complaints, but before the grand AC explosion. So Huffman was trying to explain their corporate position, just in case.

But events overtook...

nauticant · 31/03/2021 22:06

Interesting to hear the Reddit CEO, Steve Huffman, interviewed on The Media Show on Radio 4 just now. No mention of CSA images on Reddit, no mention of Challenor, and I think not even a mention of the mooted IPO. There was mention of the banning of the subReddits but only in relation to The_Donald subReddit. You'd be forgiven for thinking that it was only that one which had gone in the massive bonfire of the subReddits last year. Amol Rajan sounded engaged with the subject but the omissions were jarring. Odd.

R0wantrees · 31/03/2021 17:25

In February 2020 the IICSA published an interim report

'Allegations of child sexual abuse linked to Westminster'

(extract page 141 onwards)
The Green Party and Aimee and David Challenor
15. In November 2016, David Challenor was charged with 22 serious criminal offences, including taking indecent photographs, false imprisonment, rape, sexual assault of a child, assault by penetration and assault occasioning actual bodily harm. He was subsequently
convicted of 20 offences including rape and was sentenced to 22 years’ imprisonment.

16. At the time, Ms Aimee Challenor, David Challenor’s daughter, was a member of the Green Party and chair of the national LGBTIQA+883 Greens. When her father was charged, she informed two external communications coordinators for the Green Party, Matt Hawkins
and Clare Phipps. This was in general terms (via a private Facebook message) that her father was being charged; she did not mention that the charges related to offences against children.
On the same date Ms Challenor also informed Coventry Pride, of which she was a trustee.

17. On the same day, 5 November 2016, Mr Hawkins informed three Green Party staff members in the press team by email that a close relative of a Green Party spokesperson had been arrested. He asked the staff members to contact him if anyone contacted them concerning the matter.

18. In April 2017, Ms Challenor was selected to be the Green Party General Election candidate for Coventry South. In May 2017, she appointed her father David Challenor as her election agent when she stood as a general election candidate. In May 2018, David Challenor
was appointed as election agent for Aimee and for Tina Challenor, his wife, in the May 2018 local elections. In June or July 2018, Ms Challenor was selected as a candidate for deputy leader of the Green Party.

19. Throughout this period, David Challenor was facing very serious charges of child sexual abuse.
20. The Green Party commissioned Verita, an independent investigations consultancy, to carry out a private investigation. Its report dated January 2019 found that:
“Prioritising the safety of children and vulnerable people is an individual responsibility of every member of society. There could hardly be a bigger ‘red flag’ in this respect than someone being charged with 22 sexual offences. Irrespective of where the responsibility lies, one of the effects of the way this case was handled was that someone who had committed serious sexual offences was given roles of responsibility within the Green Party during a period of almost two years after a major safeguarding risk should have been apparent. David Challenor bears some responsibility for this, but Aimee Challenor, as an officer of the party both nationally and locally should have considered safeguarding issues.”
“Aimee Challenor had a number of roles, both locally and nationally, each of which carried important responsibilities. In not ensuring that the right people in the party were told what they needed to know, Aimee failed to fulfil her roles adequately. This is even clearer
in her encouragement of her father to become more involved in the party by, for example, appointing him as her election agent in 2017 after she knew of charges against him. This was a serious error of judgement, which she repeated when she appointed him as her
election agent in 2018.”

21. The Verita report also stressed the importance of the Green Party developing a strong safeguarding culture and made the following observation:
“It is disappointing that many people we spoke to in the party failed to see the safeguarding issues that arise here. Those in the party who were told about David Challenor’s activities saw the issue as primarily a communications one – about protecting the reputation of the party. Awareness of safeguarding issues in the party in general appears to be low.”

22. From the evidence we heard from Liz Reason, Chair of the Green Party Executive, safeguarding issues remain a matter which the Green Party needs to address.
On 17 December 2014, the Green Party received an email containing allegations of child sexual abuse against a Green Party candidate for the House of Commons. Ms Reason told us that the Green Party could not find a record of this on their system or of any action taken
in response to the email at the time. In a supplementary witness statement, she said that the Green Party was still investigating how they had responded to the email when it was received in December 2014, adding:
“From the information ascertained so far it appears that key officers spoke to the party member accused of child sexual abuse in the email and established that no child sexual abuse charges had been brought against them.”
23. The 2014 email was provided to the Inquiry in response to its request for any information held by the Green Party pertaining to child sexual abuse. However, it was not until the Inquiry made a rule 9 request to the Green Party on 8 November 2018 that further internal inquiries were triggered. Ms Reason explained this on the basis that the first time any current officers and staff in the Green Party had seen the email was when a copy was provided along with the Inquiry’s request (notwithstanding that the email had originally been provided to the Inquiry by the Green Party itself).

24. The information contained in this email appears not to have been dealt with in accordance with appropriate safeguarding and child protection procedures. The email was archived when staff members left. This was a failing. If it is correct that the only action taken was to speak to the member concerned, it supports the Verita findings that the Green Party saw allegations of child sexual abuse as primarily a communications issue – about protecting the reputation of the Party – rather than a safeguarding one.

25. After these events, Aimee Challenor joined the Liberal Democrat Party. At the time of the hearing, we understand she was the Diversity Officer on the Coventry Liberal Democrats Executive Committee. In light of this, Mr Scorer and Ms Harrison asked whether action should be taken where an individual who is known or suspected of having
failed to respond appropriately to safeguarding concerns as a member of one political party joins another political party at a later point in time.
26. Professor Thoburn told us that she would expect the matter to be covered by a crossover of safeguarding and child protection policy and disciplinary policy, and that further training may be appropriate for any such person. For child protection and safeguarding to be effective, political parties must ensure that their members and those in positions of authority – including those who may have joined from other parties – are appropriately trained and aware of safeguarding and child protection policies and procedures. (continues)

www.iicsa.org.uk/document/allegations-child-sexual-abuse-linked-westminster-investigation-report

WarriorN · 30/03/2021 22:22

"The narrative of trans activism is deemed more important than safeguarding" (paraphrase)

Damn right.

WarriorN · 30/03/2021 22:21

Wow that is good. Thanks .

"Successfully weaponise her identities." (At the end) using the status of trans to excuse behaviour.

SunsetBeetch · 30/03/2021 19:19

Video from Rose of Dawn. It's really good.

R0wantrees · 30/03/2021 17:34

There is a huge need for coproduction and user-led research in a number of areas (eg healthcare, experience of having been a looked-after child, or being someone living with an intellectual/cognitive disability.) However, it's increasingly concerning that there is a strong push to have everything centring people with "lived experience" with almost no due diligence involved as to the suitability of people wrt the vulnerable demographics involved.

Westminster Committee on Standards in Public Life
Research and analysis
'Intimidation in Public Life: Evidence from the Green Party'

TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING WITH AIMEE CHALLENOR, GREEN PARTY CANDIDATE
FOR COVENTRY SOUTH IN 2017 GENERAL ELECTION
21 September 2017, London
Committee members present: Lord Bew (Chair), Sheila Drew Smith OBE, Dr Jane Martin CBE, Jane Ramsey, Monisha Shah, Rt Hon Lord Stunell OBE
(extract)
Lord Bew: We are very grateful to you for coming along today. This is not a new issue, some say it is the behaviour of politicians that bring this upon themselves. Most say that something happened to a new level in the last election. We would like to hear your experience.

Aimee Challenor: Good morning, my name is Aimee Challenor. I stood in Coventry South for the Green Party in the last General Election, I’m 19 and I’m openly transgender.
It is my opinion that our society as a whole is becoming more divided, with an increasing amount of hate being reported each year. Not just in the past election. This applies to those in the public life just as much as anyone else, and in today’s social media era, it is relentless.
In the election campaign, I was targeted because I was an openly transgender person in politics, I received tweets or direct messages calling me a “delusional child abusing freak” . I had people telling me to kill myself, comments saying “zero debate needed, just point and
laugh hysterically. This needs bullying”. It is quite clear from the most recent general election in the UK, as well as conduct during other recent elections around the world, that politics is becoming more toxic. Intimidation from activists, members, and indeed other
candidates is growing. More can, and should, be done by all parties to tackle this behaviour and offer support to candidates.
These actions should include implementation and proper enforcement of Codes of Conduct, as well as the introduction of a ‘Candidate Welfare Officer’ or similar, so that Candidates
may have a point-of-contact. It is also my belief that action needs to be improved beyond political parties, social media websites need to improve at removing abusive content: too often I see “We reviewed your report carefully and found that there was no violation of our
Rules regarding abusive behaviour” - this has happened with some of the comments I read out to you earlier. Division in society is fuelled by social media; people feel they have an anonymous face. And it is fuelled by others behaving in a hateful way, it encourages others.
Politics is also to blame. The Referendum campaign was very divisive, and hateful to particular groups of people. This legitimised the abusive behaviour that candidates have had to face this year.
More needs to be done by the Police, when I myself have reported abusive content to the appropriate authorities, it’s been brushed aside and eventually not even forwarded on to the Crown Prosecution Service.
Therefore I’d like to suggest that the Committee should hear from social networks themselves, it would be sad if if you only look at what political parties should do to help candidates, which is definitely part of the solution, but political parties are going to need the help of those who can take enforcement action.
Why is it so important we get this right? Because Parliament is meant to be representative of society, but with the threat of intimidation and abuse becoming ever larger, diverse candidates are questioning whether or not to stand. In the 2017 General Election, there were
only 9 openly transgender candidates across all parties across the United Kingdom, To summarise; 1. There is a growing division in this country, and more needs to be done to address it. 2. The Committee should hear from social media companies 3. Parties can and should do more, I’d like to see a Candidate Welfare Officer in each Party 4. Intimidation and abuse of candidates needs to be taken more seriously by those who can take action" (continues)

Aimee Challenor: We have particular groups e.g. Greens of colour, women, LGBTIQA+ and others. These groups specialise in supporting these people - has led to better relations with the Party. At election time they form a key part of supporting those groups of people.
Generally, it’s support with emails, social media, and peer support. We did some press handling too for a transgender candidate where the local media wanted to write pieces referring to the candidate’s gender identity in a sensationalist way and the candidate was very uncomfortable with their use of language. We worked with the paper and also reported to Trans Media Watch, which did help. After we spoke to the newspaper, they did write a piece using more appropriate language." (continues)

"With respect to the Green Party, there is an executive, and a regional committee. We can recall leadership if they are bringing the Party into disrepute. There have been no difficulties with Caroline Lucas or our other Spokespeople." (continues)

www.gov.uk/government/publications/intimidation-of-parliamentary-candidates-evidence-from-the-green-party

Xanthangum · 30/03/2021 17:29

Note the RT by Dr Harrop

He seems to have gone very quiet.

WarriorN · 30/03/2021 17:17

@R0wantrees

It certainly wasn’t the first controversial or potentially offensive remark that Miranda Yardley had tweeted out, but it does appear that it was the final straw for Twitter, which handed her a permanent ban.

Tweet

Note the RT by Dr Harrop.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 30/03/2021 17:04

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Don’t things like this get investigated? Definitely shows lack of judgement at the very least.
I think you might be interested in just how many organisations are in thrall to "lived experience" and are prepared to accept pretty much anybody who ticks that box if it fulfils some need or other.

There is a huge need for coproduction and user-led research in a number of areas (eg healthcare, experience of having been a looked-after child, or being someone living with an intellectual/cognitive disability.) However, it's increasingly concerning that there is a strong push to have everything centring people with "lived experience" with almost no due diligence involved as to the suitability of people wrt the vulnerable demographics involved.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 30/03/2021 16:58

Don’t things like this get investigated? Definitely shows lack of judgement at the very least.

RabbitOfCaerbannog · 30/03/2021 16:52

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]In June, Aimee Challoner addressed the West Midlands Police Force Leadership Conference, invited by West Midlands Police LGBT Network, and was thanked by the Chief Constable. This is extraordinary given that Aimee's father and election agent, who lived in the same house, was at that time charged with heinous crimes

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346800-Andrew-Gilligan-Sunday-Times-Challenor-Green-Party?messages=100&pg=1[/quote]
This is batshit. What happened to due diligence? Sacred caste etc

RadandMad · 30/03/2021 16:50

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]In June, Aimee Challoner addressed the West Midlands Police Force Leadership Conference, invited by West Midlands Police LGBT Network, and was thanked by the Chief Constable. This is extraordinary given that Aimee's father and election agent, who lived in the same house, was at that time charged with heinous crimes

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346800-Andrew-Gilligan-Sunday-Times-Challenor-Green-Party?messages=100&pg=1[/quote]
I still can't get my head around that.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 30/03/2021 16:04

In June, Aimee Challoner addressed the West Midlands Police Force Leadership Conference, invited by West Midlands Police LGBT Network, and was thanked by the Chief Constable. This is extraordinary given that Aimee's father and election agent, who lived in the same house, was at that time charged with heinous crimes

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346800-Andrew-Gilligan-Sunday-Times-Challenor-Green-Party?messages=100&pg=1

KimThomas · 30/03/2021 15:59

Thank you for the kind words, and you’re completely right, Gasp, about the amazing work Mumsnetters (and indeed Kiwi Farmers) have done in digging out all this stuff. I probably should have acknowledged that.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/03/2021 14:57

It's astounding, isn't it. I can only assume everybody thought everyone else had done the due diligence (that's an extremely charitable interpretation). I used to drive my children mad when they were younger by trotting out this corny old saying at every opportunity - 'To assume makes an ASS out of U and Me'.

Good article, Kim. I'd just like to add that although Graham Linehan has indeed done a great job of shining a spotlight on this, all the initial spadework of digging through the huge social media and other internet presences of the Challenor family was done by people, mostly women, posting either here or on Twitter, shortly after Challenor senior was sentenced, so coming up to three years ago. There's a great deal of info on 🥝 too. There's a lot to criticise KF for, but they are very hot on archiving and backing claims up with screenshots and links.

The mainstream media has by and large ignored what was right under their noses here. Investigative journalism seems to be dying out. As for the management of Reddit, what a shower.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 30/03/2021 14:31

@Zeev

The talk guidelines aren't helping me to understand why many of my comments first stand for a good many hours and then are suddenly deleted, but ho hum.

Imagine giving a regular 23-year-old this much power? Not only could Aimee admin conversations and subreddits over on reddit, Aimee also had clout in two big political parties and could/can people banned from twitter. When I was 23, nobody cared if someone called me a man (and people sometimes did, I was gender-nonconforming).

I'll never forget the Twitter back and forth in which AC thanked a Deputy Chief Constable for the invitation to address/teach some police group/cohort or other and the DCC thanked AC.

Giving evidence to HoC committees, addressing senior police officials. Remarkable amount of influence and negligible accountability or due diligence.

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 30/03/2021 12:41

[quote KimThomas]Is it ok to share this piece that I wrote about Challenor? It covers some of the issues but I didn’t have space to tackle them all. I also refer to Challenor as “she”, which some people have taken issue with (probably rightly): www.uncancelled.co.uk/tie-world/gender/what-does-the-aimee-challenor-case-teach-us/[/quote]
Thanks Kim, great article Smile

MichelleofzeResistance · 30/03/2021 12:40

he talk guidelines aren't helping me to understand why many of my comments first stand for a good many hours and then are suddenly deleted, but ho hum.

Comments are not automatically moderated, they are only looked at if someone reports one. So a comment may stand for hours, days, weeks or more before someone reads it who feels it should be reported.

Zeev · 30/03/2021 12:09

That's a great article, very matter-of-fact

toffeebutterpopcorn · 30/03/2021 11:37

Holy moles.

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