Why give child man' s surname

Both women I know want to get married. It’s the men who are showing with their actions that they don’t want to get married. Both women could propose of course but they won’t.

That’s really not the point though - the point I’m making is that women talk about “keeping their name” as if it’s not just the name of another man given to them essentially automatically at birth. Our own surnames are a product of the patriarchal naming system

But the point I'm making that my name is my name, just as much as my husband's name is his name. There is an attitude that a woman 'gets' her name from her father anyway, so why doesn't she just take her husband's name? But by that logic her husband no more has his own name than she does - it came from his father. So she's not taking her husband's name, she's taking her husband's father's name etc. It just seems to me to be an odd argument.

Also, I mention this on every name thread so apologies for the repetition, but a number of surnames ending in 'ster actually come from a female lineage. Eg:

Brewster - female brewer
Baxter - female baker
Webster - female weaver (webber being the male surname)

You also see it preserved in the word 'spinster'.

So it's not true that all surnames have always been handed down through the male line.

I also know a couple who joined their surnames to make a completely new one. That worked quite well. She is a Dr as well so they were announced as Mr and Dr X. Loved that.

For me it would depend on why they aren't married.

If it's a mutual decision then the kids should get double-barrelled surnames, at least for airport issues etc, they can go by just one in public and at school.

If it's only your friend who's against marriage and her partner would be up for it, I'd probably give DC his last name or again double-barrel.

It would be unfair to refuse to marry him and also not let him have the same last name as his DC (though of course many men do that to their partners).

My DDs both have DH’s name and I do too. DD1 was born before we were married and I knew I would want us all to have the same name. DH and I knew we were going to get married but we were saving up for it. DD1 was an unexpected addition early on in our relationship but we had talked about marriage. DH proposed a year later. I felt no real emotional attachment to my last name. DH wouldn’t have minded if I kept my name and I wouldn’t have pushed him to take mine. If I felt strongly about my name, of course I’d have kept it.

I know two people who are pregnant or have just had babies who gave them their partner’s name. They’re not married. Both have been desperate for their partner to propose and get married and they have been together for long enough that it would have happened by now. One’s partner told her she could change her name to his by deed poll if she wanted to. Both men are screaming that they don’t want to marry them but they both gave/will give their children his name. That I don’t understand!

Hyphenated mothers and fathers
Association to surname-
Mine is always Misspelt and mispronounced
Sounds and rolls off better with fathers
Mother choosing first names so father chooses surname
Unimportant to mother which name is taken
Nothing to do with a man thinking he is our "property" rather working together to included what's the father values as important to him and less important to me
Parenting is compromising being inclusive, not looking at it as property or ownership of us.

My cousin did exactly this. His surname was awful so they both took her name.

Refreshing!

So then your children wouldn't be getting your husband's name either.

And you wouldn't be getting your husband's name, just a random name from one of his ancestors.

That’s really not the point though - the point I’m making is that women talk about “keeping their name” as if it’s not just the name of another man given to them essentially automatically at birth. Our own surnames are a product of the patriarchal naming system, so even without the abuse I would have felt no urge to pass my name on and give my kids their grandfather’s name rather than their father’s name.

When I changed my name at 18 I actually spend some time flipping through the phone book considering other names, but since somehow all my exam certificates were in the name I used at school which was my stepdad’s name (I still don’t know how my mum managed that - is that standard?!) I just went with the easy option.

Had I picked a name at that point that had any importance to me I would have kept it when I got married.

I agree OP. It doesn't make sense to me that some women are very proud of not taking their husband's surname after marriage (to the extent that they will openly look down on women who do), yet give their child their husband's surname. To me it's exactly the same thing 🤷‍♀️

If you don't like the "strident feminist" explanation, what's your explanation?

Why would I want her name? I've already been lumbered with the name of her husband, rather than her lover because it made it easier to pretend that such a pillar of the community hadn't been fucking somebody else for five years before becoming a widow.

And more to the point, why would my children want it? I know who their fathers are.

Myself and my sister have my mum's surname. My children also have this surname, as do my sisters children. I like the idea of it passing down the maternal line. The last patriarchal link to the name is my grandfather. I'm hoping that my daughters will continue the maternal line with their children.

People are entitled to use whatever surname they want, for themselves and for their children, without strident feminists telling them what they should or shouldn't do. Neither do they have to justify their reasons for their choices.

No, but people are perfectly entitled to have the discussion around surnames, and have an opinion.

I just don't get why this one bugs you so much. Majority of women follow current cultural norm in naming children is not a suprise

It’s not a surprise to me at all. I’d just like some honesty, really, instead of reading the same old excuses.

There’s nothing wrong with following a cultural tradition, to be clear.

It's a patriarchal society and women when they marry become the man's property

FFS, what a load of claptrap. I don't know any women who have become 'the man's property' on marriage. Get over yourself.

People are entitled to use whatever surname they want, for themselves and for their children, without strident feminists telling them what they should or shouldn't do. Neither do they have to justify their reasons for their choices.

And you wouldn't be getting your husband's name, just a random name from one of his ancestors.

I understand why you wouldn't want to continue to share the name of someone who abused you. Usually such a situation accounts for the rare occasions when men change their surnames on marriage too.

We all seem to forget that our surnames are usually our father’s surnames, they all usually come from men

What are you talking about - no-one forgets that?! It’s patently obvious.

But change has to start somewhere. I have a friend who’s surname is her Mum’s, which is her Mum’s. Before that, it was a man’s. But it’s been a woman’s for three generations now.

As I say, change has to start somewhere.

I know someone whose new partner said he wouldn’t marry her unless she took his surname (and therefore be different from her children)

Personally, I wouldn’t have got married

Actually after all I've said I do know someone who had a genuinely awful surname so took her the husbands and gave it to her Dd.
She remarried a couple of years back and they both took his name as husband 1 was awful as a husband and father, and no way was she going back to the terrible maiden name.
Her Dd was around 20 by this point though so totally her choice.

I changed my name on marriage, i wasnt going to and at one point we were both going to change but in the end it was me and my name was probably better than his. I definitely did it (in the end) for convenience and convention

What’s infuriating though is the small amount of posters who get criticised when they say that they didnt like their original surname. I appreciate that its a class based discussion but I don’t think telling name changing posters that you know why they really did it and that they are lying stupid or mistaken is fair (not necessarily on this thread)

And like little dh dad went off the rails at the mere suggestion sh change his surname, so there are probably men out there who hate their name but due to convenience and convention can’t change it

I think im most irritated by this as im on a thread about porn and every poster who says their dh doesn’t look at porn is being told how very very wrong they are about their own relationships

I don’t think it’s anyone’s business. Unless the woman is being coerced, then the real focus shouldn’t be on the child’s surname but supporting the mother from getting out of an abusive situation.

I’m sure in the past names were a lot more fluid. But then so were cases of bigamy etc.

The child grows up and can decide for themselves their own names. Your name belongs to you not your parents, they give you one you’re not obliged to keep it.

For me the issue is that they wouldn’t be getting my name, they’d be getting my father (or stepfather’s name). We all seem to forget that our surnames are usually our father’s surnames, they all usually come from men

I was abused by my father. My stepfather was also abusive and horrible but I grew up with his surname so just changed it to that when I was 18 as it was on so much stuff already.

I had absolutely no issue taking my DH’s name when we got married - I’d rather share his surname than either of those two. Other option would be picking a random name out of a book - my mother’s maiden name was her father’s surname, also an abusive bastard. Why would I want it?

So giving our own names doesn’t equate to some feminist act to me, when it’s usually just giving them the name of our fathers.

i was married to my sons father and didn't ask his "permission" I simply went and registered DS with my surname. I was the one who wanted a son, he wanted a daughter so why not. I also kept my own surname through two marriages. This was in the 1980s and people non stop asked questions about it.
Neither of my marriages lasted, they didn't like my free spirited ways.

Oh yes. All the people I know who 'just happen to prefer' their spouse's surname are always women.

Their spouse's name is simpler and easier to spell. Alternatively, their partner's name is way more unusual and interesting and they've always wanted a more unusual name.

On the rare occasion I that a man has taken his wife's surname (not double-barrelled), it's usually because he dislikes his father and doesn't want to continue the family name.

I have never met a man who 'just happened to prefer' his wife's name. I've never met a man who said 'well I've got a brother whose wife has taken his name and my fiancée is an only child so it makes sense to take her name.'

I did once read an article by a journalist called Alice Roberts (Robertson?) whose husband told her that if she loved him she would take his surname. She now writes under her married name of Alice Smellie.

I guess she 'just happened' to prefer it.