Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are we the Baddies? Yes (well some!) according to the Daily Express: LGBT community is at war with itself, transphobia in the LGBT world has to STOP

140 replies

MishyJDI · 23/03/2021 12:09

I have to agree with a lot of this: Too much time worrying about a minority in echo chambers like this, and not enough fighting the real issues of feminism - patriarchy remains the number one enemy!

Mostly the younger generation get it, which is why there is such a disconnect and dismay expressed often on here.

(I'm sure this will make the Bunbury tales of scones and jam recipes - but seriously, trans ideology obsession on here is ludicrous.) Let's focus on real changes for women and girls that improve all our lives.

From the Daily Express

www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1413110/transphobic-trans-what-is-transgender-JK-Rowling-LGBT-community-TERF/amp?

The LGBT community is at war with itself, transphobia in the LGBT world has to STOP - COMMENT

RESIGNATIONS from three Government LGBT advisers over Equalities Minister Liz Truss and Boris Johnson's Government failure on LGBT rights (including dragging its feet to grant trans people rights in the UK) comes as no surprise.

By Maryann Wright

Ending the trans culture war once and for all, and outlawing so-called conversion therapy which treats sexuality and gender nonconformity as a choice or mental health problem, is a stagnant, three-year-old promise. Policy delay from the Conservative government is frustrating and devastating for our LGBT community, but the continual warfare amongst our own is a deeply insidious undercurrent that needs rooting out too. I’m talking about transphobia within the LGBT community.

The small group of lesbians who believe that transwomen aren’t real women because of an essentialist and reductionist belief that a woman’s identity is rooted in biology.

The distorted fear that transwomen will invade women’s spaces to victimise them, or even more outrageous, coerce lesbians to sleep with them, implying that lesbians must accept transwomen as sexual partners so as not to be labelled as trans-exclusionary, and that sex isn’t based on consent.

Or the assumption that men will misleadingly dress up as women and pose threats of sexual violence in women’s toilets because of Britain's 2010 Equality Act that protects trans people from discrimination in accessing single-sex spaces.

A small group of lesbian feminists called “Get the L Out” even go so far to claim that lesbian-only spaces are disappearing because of transwomen, “leading to difficulties in meeting like-minded women.”

As someone who runs women-only spaces inclusive of trans and cis-gendered women and genderqueer, non-binary people, for the very purpose of offering alternatives to male-dominated LGBT bars and clubs, I call BS.

I agree that LGBT spaces and activism is still male-dominated, and that more needs to be done to promote equality within the LGBT community, but the idea that transgender inclusivity harms women, and lesbians in particular, is just ludicrous.

Persecuting an even smaller minority within an already marginalised community is counter intuitive and harmful, whether you’re taking an LGBT or feminist perspective.

Firstly, let’s bust an insidious myth. There is no evidence that trans-inclusive laws lead to a rise in assaults, stalking or harassment in single-sex spaces.

The loud, transphobic noise coming from trans exclusionary radical feminists, or TERFs, of late is fear mongering.

Trans activism isn’t eroding women and girls' rights to single-sex spaces by "offering cover to predators," nor are trans-inclusionary policies "playing fast and loose with women's and girls' safety".

Do you know whose safety we are playing fast and loose with in this debate, though? Trans people.

Almost 50 percent of transgender people have experienced a hate crime because of their gender identity in the last 12 months, and 67 percent of trans people surveyed by the Government Equalities Office said they’d avoided being open about their gender identity for fear of a negative reaction.

Transphobic arguments weaponise transpeople as if they are transgressors, harking back to the old and demeaning cinematic trope of cross-dressing serial killers, and yet the reality is that trans people are the ones being transgressed.

We need to be protecting trans people, not the other way around. Any suggestion otherwise is incongruent to the facts.

It isn’t too small a point to also remember that transgender people make up 13 percent of the LGBT community, so any claims that transwomen are invading lesbian spaces is an exaggeration at best.

All of this fear mongering strikes me as history repeating itself.
Thirty years ago we were having this discussion about gay people, living under the revolting Section 28 of Margaret Thatcher’s government, which prohibited the promotion of homosexuality. Back then, living my cis lesbian life in the UK would have been questioned and persecuted.

Now, we are lucky to have made real progress in battling homophobia, and we need to ensure that progress passes down to our trans friends.

Lesbian rights are not under attack by the trans movement.
Transphobia has no place in feminism and no place in the LGBT community.

It is not a competition about who is having the most horrible time. There’s not a finite amount of equality.

Yes, the dominance of the patriarchy is alive and well, and misogyny is exhausting.

But it is not mutually exclusive to recognise that society as a whole is patriarchal and women are more likely to be killed by a partner, earn less, and find it difficult to go back to work after having a baby, and that people get to decide their gender identity.

Let’s also not confuse cismen with transwomen. The lived experience is entirely different, whether or not you respect their gender identity.
So many people have a complete disconnect with the lived experience of a trans person, and they don’t take time to consider this before casting judgment.

We need to stop perpetuating hypothetical fears not based in reality. The distortion and the hyperbole is destructive. The conversation has to mature.

How about we move the discussion to supporting trans people. Let’s ensure the Gender Recognition Act and Equality Act is fit for purpose. Let’s ban conversion therapy.

"Let’s instil a supportive framework within the LGBT community that encourages a person’s right to choose to express their gender identity."

The in-fighting needs to stop, let’s work with trans people to protect their right to a life of self-definition, safety and peace.

Maryann Wright is the Founder of Sappho Events, producing safe, sober and social events for LGBT women and non-binary people. www.sapphoevents.co.uk

OP posts:
AfternoonToffee · 23/03/2021 13:27

@persistentwoman

Love this bit: The small group of lesbians who believe that transwomen aren’t real women because of an essentialist and reductionist belief that a woman’s identity is rooted in biology . Grin Grin

Except is tragic that someone can believe / write that .

I just couldn't find the words to respond to that bit.

So back to the feels, but many women don't feel like a woman we just are, I have no idea who am I anymore.

Helmetbymidnight · 23/03/2021 13:27

Let's focus on real changes for women and girls that improve all our lives.

What's a woman then?

LisaStansfield · 23/03/2021 13:24

That’s a great article.

Kit19 · 23/03/2021 13:23

what a load of wankspannery

if the definition of women includes men then we cannot "focus on real changes for women and girls that improve all our lives" because there are no changes for women and girls just changes for people

im so bored of having to point out that men no matter how they present are not women

persistentwoman · 23/03/2021 13:22

Love this bit:
The small group of lesbians who believe that transwomen aren’t real women because of an essentialist and reductionist belief that a woman’s identity is rooted in biology .
Grin Grin

Except is tragic that someone can believe / write that .

AdHominemNonSequitur · 23/03/2021 13:22

Well if Maryann Wright from the Daily Express says so, I guess it must be so.

Zinco · 23/03/2021 13:20

Lesbian rights are not under attack by the trans movement.... It is not a competition about who is having the most horrible time. There’s not a finite amount of equality.

But claimed "rights" can indeed conflict, and certainly there is a limit to everything getting worked out with everyone perfectly happy at the end.

If you want to say that women's rights aren't under attack, then you can only say that if you assume that the "women's rights" side is making all false claims; and you decide everything in favour of trans-activists.

So as rhetoric, this is just biased or begging the question.

picklemewalnuts · 23/03/2021 13:20

Hogwash.

Safeguarding. It's about putting in obstacles to predatory behaviour and abusive people.

Asking for special arrangements to allow access to vulnerable people or to allow vulnerable people to practice dangerous things is a red flag.

Safe people don't undermine safeguarding. Safe guarding keeps vulnerable people- INCLUDING youngsters with gender dysphoria or those questioning their sexuality- safe.

LacyEdge · 23/03/2021 13:20

Almost 50 percent of transgender people have experienced a hate crime because of their gender identity in the last 12 months

What constitutes a hate crime in this statistic? Just interested to drill down into the stats. Is transphobic hate crime differentiated in this assessment from eg misogynistic hate crime experienced by all women?

Imnobody4 · 23/03/2021 13:19

I'm shocked you read the Daily Express.

NancyDrawed · 23/03/2021 13:19

Let’s also not confuse cismen with transwomen. The lived experience is entirely different, whether or not you respect their gender identity.
So many people have a complete disconnect with the lived experience of a trans person, and they don’t take time to consider this before casting judgment.

But the 'lived experience of a transwoman' is not the same as the 'lived experience of a woman' either. Of course people have a disconnect with what it is like to go about life as anyone other than themself. I can no more understand what it is like to be trans, than a TW can understand what it is to be a woman. Each of us has our own unique experience.

Usagi12 · 23/03/2021 13:17

Oh god what a depressing read. It's all so wrong I don't even know where to start. What bloody rights have trans people not been granted in the UK? The right to do whatever they bloody like whenever they want to by the sounds of it.

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 23/03/2021 13:15

That's a lot of words to tell women to shut up about our rights.

And no, we are not the baddies.

NancyDrawed · 23/03/2021 13:12

Where in the EA2010 does is the bit that 'protect trans people from discrimination in accessing single-sex spaces' ?

AfternoonToffee · 23/03/2021 13:07

Two questions.

In the UK what rights do the Trans community not have that others do?

Secondly, what is the definition of conversion therapy?